wife

[mnn727]

Originally Posted by john doe

I'll give an 'A' for effort, but I still don't buy the concept. Hymns do not declare doctrine, although they may reflect doctrine.

I agree, Hymns contain doctrine, but they do not declare doctrine, same with Sunday School Manuals, Priesthood/ Relief Society Manuals, etc. They are all a good source to learn about doctrine, but not a place that new doctrine is declared.

Now to speak about whether we believe God has a wife, yes we do, but because it is inferred from everything else we have as doctrine.

As to whether they have sex? why not, is sex wrong? sinful? dirty?
Sex between my wife and I is not; wrong, sinful or dirty, why should it be between 2 beings with infinitly more capicity to love than we have right now?
We are created in the image of God, male and female. Why wouldn't someone assume He and His wife share themselves with each other?

[mnn727]

Originally Posted by abqfriend

Making Sense and Doctrine are two different things-at least in the Catholic Church.
-I would guess in the LDS Church too.

-Carol

Actually, not in the LDS Church, its the most logical Church I have ever studied about, (and I visited and studied a lot of different Churches before joining), everything makes sense.

[mnn727]

Originally Posted by AnthonyB

To speak of heavenly parents, does it necessarily mean Father and Mother. Surely it may just be refering to the multiple persons of the Godhead who were involved in our creation. The bible has both Father God and Jesus involved in creating us, in LDS thinking it was the Father that played a part in out spirit selves and Jesus who brought about the physical world we are physically born into. Both played a part in bringing us into what we are, so it would not be unreasonable (in LDS terms) to see them as our parents.

Sorry Anthony, I don't buy your assumptions at all. Interesting thought though.

[skippy740]

Originally Posted by mnn727

I agree, Hymns contain doctrine, but they do not declare doctrine, same with Sunday School Manuals, Priesthood/ Relief Society Manuals, etc. They are all a good source to learn about doctrine, but not a place that new doctrine is declared.

I'm going to hijack the thread a bit here.

If a booklet is produced by the Church for the purposes of learning and instruction... isn't it considered an "Official Publication" for our edification and learning? Isn't it a source to learn more about the Gospel and our place in it?

If the Church wants us to learn about it, it has meaning and it is doctrine. Just because it isn't in the 4-standard works doesn't mean it isn't something we need to learn about.

We as LDS, believe in an open cannon of scripture:
Article of Faith #9: We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

From the Primary Manual:
LDS.org - Primary Chapter Detail - I Am a Child of God

"Explain that we all lived in heaven with Heavenly Father before we came to this earth. We are his children. That is why we call him Heavenly Father. We also lived with our heavenly mother and all the rest of Heavenly Father’s children. Everyone who has been born on the earth is a child of Heavenly Father. We do not remember living with Heavenly Father, but we know we are his children because we read it in the scriptures."

If little kids can be taught it, isn't it doctrine that we can ALL learn from?

Quotations from President Lee:
LDS.org - Ensign Article - A Sure Trumpet Sound: Quotations from President Lee

Revelation
There are forces that work beyond our sight. Sometimes we think the whole job is up to us, forgetful that there are loved ones beyond our sight who are thinking about us and our children. We forget that we have a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother who are even more concerned, probably, than our earthly father and mother, and that influences from beyond are constantly working to try to help us when we do all we can.


I don't know what else we need to help us learn the doctrine of the kingdom than the simplicity of teaching children and a quote from a Latter Day Prophet.

(Well, faith may help some. )

[abqfriend]

You may wish to ask the LDS Church to include it if official doctrine.

In the Catholic Church-official publications-outside The Catechism- and official pronouncements from The Vatican---are not considered as doctrine..
-Doctrine for a Catholic must be defined as such by the leaders of the Church.

I do not know the LDS Position-but with the same reasoning you give- would not everything then published in official publications-be doctrine?

-Carol

Originally Posted by skippy740

I'm going to hijack the thread a bit here.

If a booklet is produced by the Church for the purposes of learning and instruction... isn't it considered an "Official Publication" for our edification and learning? Isn't it a source to learn more about the Gospel and our place in it?

If the Church wants us to learn about it, it has meaning and it is doctrine. Just because it isn't in the 4-standard works doesn't mean it isn't something we need to learn about.

We as LDS, believe in an open cannon of scripture:
Article of Faith #9: We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

From the Primary Manual:
LDS.org - Primary Chapter Detail - I Am a Child of God

"Explain that we all lived in heaven with Heavenly Father before we came to this earth. We are his children. That is why we call him Heavenly Father. We also lived with our heavenly mother and all the rest of Heavenly Father’s children. Everyone who has been born on the earth is a child of Heavenly Father. We do not remember living with Heavenly Father, but we know we are his children because we read it in the scriptures."

If little kids can be taught it, isn't it doctrine that we can ALL learn from?

Quotations from President Lee:
LDS.org - Ensign Article - A Sure Trumpet Sound: Quotations from President Lee

Revelation
There are forces that work beyond our sight. Sometimes we think the whole job is up to us, forgetful that there are loved ones beyond our sight who are thinking about us and our children. We forget that we have a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother who are even more concerned, probably, than our earthly father and mother, and that influences from beyond are constantly working to try to help us when we do all we can.


I don't know what else we need to help us learn the doctrine of the kingdom than the simplicity of teaching children and a quote from a Latter Day Prophet.

(Well, faith may help some. )

[AnthonyB]

Would only those in the celestial kingdom get to meet Mother God? (I can't help thinking that if we did have a heavenly mother, being a mum, she would want to be with all her kids!)

[skippy740]

Originally Posted by AnthonyB

Would only those in the celestial kingdom get to meet Mother God? (I can't help thinking that if we did have a heavenly mother, being a mum, she would want to be with all her kids!)

Well said!

The 3 degrees of glory are structured so that those in the Celestial Kingdom can always visit those in the Terrestial and Telestial kingdoms. Those in the Terrestial can visit those in the Telestial, but are unable to visit those in the Celestial.

Basically, Heavenly Mother can visit whomever she wants at anytime. But the priviledge to LIVE with Her falls upon us to live and follow the path that our Father and Christ want for us.

[AnthonyB]

How could anyone consider being anywhere but were our Father God is (and our Mother as well, if you LDS are correct) a heavenly realm. Surely all the inhabitants of the other realms would be great anguish not to be living with them, outer darkness might well be a relief to those who could have lived with them but choose not to.

[john doe]

Originally Posted by AnthonyB

How could anyone consider being anywhere but were our Father God is (and our Mother as well, if you LDS are correct) a heavenly realm. Surely all the inhabitants of the other realms would be great anguish not to be living with them, outer darkness might well be a relief to those who could have lived with them but choose not to.

Yes, you hit upon it! While the other realms will be much better conditions than what we have here, the knowledge that they missed the ultimate reward will be like suffering in their own private hells.

[MarginOfError]

We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God and that the family is central to the Creator’s plan for the eternal destiny of His children.

All human beings—male and female—are created in the image of God. Each is a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents, and, as such, each has a divine nature and destiny. Gender is an essential characteristic of individual premortal, mortal, and eternal identity and purpose. -- The Family: A Proclamation to the World

Come to think of it, John, I can't, off hand, think of any reference that states explicitly that we have a Heavenly Mother. The quote Gwen gave from the Primary manual is pretty convincing, as that had to go through the Curriculum Department (as does the hymn book) which is overseen by the Twelve. Other than that, without doing any research, the Family Proclamation is the best I can come up with. It at least mentions parents (plural) and gender in the same paragraph (although admittedly, tying them together in the context is hard to do).

Ultimately, I think there is enough evidence to justify the belief. I'm not sure I would or would not call it 'official doctrine.' What I am sure about, however, is that it is unnecessary doctrine, as our salvation is in no way tied to whether or not a Heavenly Mother exists. I would think this has more to do with why missionaries don't teach about a Heavenly Mother--she's irrelevant to us at this stage of our eternal existence.