Before us...

[FunkyTown]

Wait, Bmy... What? o.O Certain things are not to be discussed in public areas?

The origin of mankind is pretty basic. Why wouldn't we discuss in public these things?

There're no such things as 'hidden scriptures' in the LDS church.

[Koizito]

Everything we know for sure, every single piece of technology we have at our disposal came from science, reason and mathematical processes... As a society, religion doesn't help a bit and, in some cases, it increases suffering and death... Of course, we may feel more confident if we think there is a cosmical father or something like that helping us, but this is taking it individually...

Albert Einstein wasn't theist, he was a pantheist... He believed the natural laws were god... Like in a metaphor... He didn't believe in a being that is watching for us... And also, I think that by "intuitive" he meant "imaginative, creative", as supposedely a scientist should be...

We already did the impossible: some centuries ago, people thought nothing that was heavier than air would fly, and therefore it was impossible to us, humans, to fly, but now we have giant machines, which weigh much more than air, taking us to far away places... Nothing is impossible...

Knowing the "what" but not the "why" and the "how" is like knowing the story less than half way ... The"why" and the "how" are much more interesting and hard to know...

Evidences are things that you can show anybody and that person wouldn't have other option than to say "yes, the X event occurred...". Faith can't do that, or else even the most rational scientists in the world would have to accept it as evidence... Or as a way to achieve proofs... Actually, one of the objectives of the first model of science was to try to explain things without using supernatural explanations... And that one hasn't changed yet...

And finally, both doubt and fear are good things: doubt makes you look for knowledge, fear makes you want to change things... Both of them, mixed with moral and ethics, are extremely useful...
How convenient for something or someone which existence can't be proved by science or any rational means that faith is good and both doubt and fear are bad...

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Koizito

Everything we know for sure, every single piece of technology we have at our disposal came from science, reason and mathematical processes... As a society, religion doesn't help a bit and, in some cases, it increases suffering and death... Of course, we may feel more confident if we think there is a cosmical father or something like that helping us, but this is taking it individually...

Albert Einstein wasn't theist, he was a pantheist... He believed the natural laws were god... Like in a metaphor... He didn't believe in a being that is watching for us... And also, I think that by "intuitive" he meant "imaginative, creative", as supposedely a scientist should be...

We already did the impossible: some centuries ago, people thought nothing that was heavier than air would fly, and therefore it was impossible to us, humans, to fly, but now we have giant machines, which weigh much more than air, taking us to far away places... Nothing is impossible...

Knowing the "what" but not the "why" and the "how" is like knowing the story less than half way ... The"why" and the "how" are much more interesting and hard to know...

Evidences are things that you can show anybody and that person wouldn't have other option than to say "yes, the X event occurred...". Faith can't do that, or else even the most rational scientists in the world would have to accept it as evidence... Or as a way to achieve proofs... Actually, one of the objectives of the first model of science was to try to explain things without using supernatural explanations... And that one hasn't changed yet...

And finally, both doubt and fear are good things: doubt makes you look for knowledge, fear makes you want to change things... Both of them, mixed with moral and ethics, are extremely useful...
How convenient for something or someone which existence can't be proved by science or any rational means that faith is good and both doubt and fear are bad...

Einstein was a recalcitrant Jew that just wanted to do his own thing and not be burdened with observing the traditions of his fathers. But he could not avoid the reality of the creation, the universe and the complexity found therein for which he had no explanation. I can humbly tell you that I have pondered, researched and analyze matters of faith and science much longer that you. I am a man of science and inquiry is of God, we have been commanded to search and to learn and be acquainted with the knowledge and the perplexities of the universe. The notion that everything can be explained by rational means is simply not true, in fact is unscientific.

By his own admission: "I want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are details.
Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." A. Einstein.


He was not the cold, calculating and exclusive mathematician you think he was. Beyond that, we should just agree to disagree. Yo claim there is no God, I say He is certainly very real. You just refuse to met Him, but eventually you will. I'll make sure I'm there the witness the exchange.

Good luck sport.

[Koizito]

Hey I never said he was cold and too rational... From what I know of him, he seemed like a nice guy, even though a stubborn guy...

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
Albert Einstein

I guess you people don't understand the meaning of the word "metaphor"...

[Islander]

Originally Posted by Koizito

Hey I never said he was cold and too rational... From what I know of him, he seemed like a nice guy, even though a stubborn guy...

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
Albert Einstein

I guess you people don't understand the meaning of the word "metaphor"...

You still did not explain Einstein's quotes above (the ones I cited). You are quite selective about your approach. But again, you still have much to learn. Carry on sport, do your thing and let me do mine.

[bmy-]

Originally Posted by FunkyTown

Wait, Bmy... What? o.O Certain things are not to be discussed in public areas?

The origin of mankind is pretty basic. Why wouldn't we discuss in public these things?

There're no such things as 'hidden scriptures' in the LDS church.

I was specifically referring to certain questions about the temples, etc.

[FunkyTown]

Originally Posted by bmy-

I was specifically referring to certain questions about the temples, etc.

Well, the temples can be talked about pretty freely without being secretive. "What do you do in temples?" "Things like Baptisms and Marriages." "Oh. What are the specific, word for word ordinances you perform?" "That's sacred, but we welcome you to become temple worthy and find out! Basically, the temples are there for eternal ordinances that can not be performed elsewhere." "Yes, but I really want to know what goes on exactly." "Sorry. It's a sacred thing. Sacred things are discussed in their own place." "Why are you mormons so secretive?" "You could pretty much find any of the ordinances all over the internet. It's not exactly secretive, but I won't be the one to degrade the temples holy nature."

The Temple is used for marriages, baptisms for the dead, endowments and sealings. In the same way that Peter was promised in Matthew 16:19, 'And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.', the Temple is a place where things of eternal worth are pursued.

[Koizito]

Originally Posted by Islander

You still did not explain Einstein's quotes above (the ones I cited). You are quite selective about your approach. But again, you still have much to learn. Carry on sport, do your thing and let me do mine.

"Now, even though the realms of religion and science in themselves are clearly marked off from each other, nevertheless there exist between the two strong reciprocal relationships and dependencies. Though religion may be that which determines the goal, it has, nevertheless, learned from science, in the broadest sense, what means will contribute to the attainment of the goals it has set up. But science can only be created by those who are thoroughly imbued with the aspiration toward truth and understanding. This source of feeling, however, springs from the sphere of religion. To this there also belongs the faith in the possibility that the regulations valid for the world of existence are rational, that is, comprehensible to reason. I cannot conceive of a genuine scientist without that profound faith. The situation may be expressed by an image: science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind"

I took the liberty to search for what I think is the article where Albert Einstein said that sentence... The one about science and religion... As you can see, for him religion at best only gives you the goals, but it can never take you there... For that we have science... And faith is only needed when a scientist believes everything can be explained rationaly...

And the sentence before, as I already said, is a metaphor, in which god means the natural laws...

[bmy-]

Originally Posted by FunkyTown

Well, the temples can be talked about pretty freely without being secretive. "What do you do in temples?" "Things like Baptisms and Marriages." "Oh. What are the specific, word for word ordinances you perform?" "That's sacred, but we welcome you to become temple worthy and find out! Basically, the temples are there for eternal ordinances that can not be performed elsewhere." "Yes, but I really want to know what goes on exactly." "Sorry. It's a sacred thing. Sacred things are discussed in their own place." "Why are you mormons so secretive?" "You could pretty much find any of the ordinances all over the internet. It's not exactly secretive, but I won't be the one to degrade the temples holy nature."

Plenty of Mormons confuse 'sacred' and 'secret'. That's why I'd rather not talk about it in an open forum.. I don't want to step on peoples toes.

Oh, and Einstein was not religious. At the very most he was a deist..

[Koizito]

Originally Posted by bmy-

Plenty of Mormons confuse 'sacred' and 'secret'. That's why I'd rather not talk about it in an open forum.. I don't want to step on peoples toes.

Oh, and Einstein was not religious. At the very most he was a deist..

I think you mean pantheist...