Before us...

[the Ogre]

Originally Posted by Koizito

But what happens if I don't get that "testify of truth" before I die? Do I go to hell, even though it isn't my fault?

I don't think so, but then again Latter-day Saints don't exactly believe in "hell".

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by Koizito

Even I don't know that... I just remember it was quite diferent from the christian doctrine...

Also, I see many of you have diferent views about the creation of the universe, the world, mankind, etc. That is one aspect of religion in general that doesn't fit in my head: shouldn't you be in diferent religious groups since your views about god and its relation to the universe are diferent?

I am sorry about so many questions, and thank you for your patience once again...

Classifications are never easy. Some think we should be Christian, others not. Then again, if the original Christian churches that we now know as the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox are the true Christians, then perhaps Protestants and Evangelicals should not be called Christian, either.

There are differences, because while we use the same Bible, the others also have a set of creeds which establish their doctrines. LDS, on the other hand, do not have creeds, but they believe in living prophets and apostles, as were had in Israel anciently, who guide us today.

This does make us different. They are Traditional Christians. We are Restorationist Christians. But we are all still Christians.

They have to figure out the Creation via only the Bible's words. We have modern prophets to help guide us through it, via the additional light and truth God has given them. Modern prophets have taught us about our premortal existence, our purpose here on earth, and what the next life is all about. Traditional Christians have less information at their disposal, and so have less guidance in these areas.

But there are several key things that do unite us. We believe in God the Father, and God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. We believe that Jesus is our Savior and Redeemer. We believe he will return again in glory for a 2nd coming, and redeem the world, creating a new Garden of Eden/paradisaical glory for 1000 years. Those who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved. Those who become Christ's complete enemy and will not worship him will be cast into Outer Darkness with the devil.

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by the Ogre

I don't think so, but then again Latter-day Saints don't exactly believe in "hell".

We DO believe in hell. Actually, we believe in two hells. Upon dying, our spirits enter into the Spirit World, where a portion is called "paradise" for the righteous, and the wicked will go to "hell" where they will pay for their sins until they've fully repented and chosen Christ. For those who refuse to ever repent and believe on Christ, they will join the Devil in the eternal hell, entitled Outer Darkness, where they will be out of the presence of God.

[the Ogre]

Originally Posted by rameumptom

We DO believe in hell. Actually, we believe in two hells. Upon dying, our spirits enter into the Spirit World, where a portion is called "paradise" for the righteous, and the wicked will go to "hell" where they will pay for their sins until they've fully repented and chosen Christ. For those who refuse to ever repent and believe on Christ, they will join the Devil in the eternal hell, entitled Outer Darkness, where they will be out of the presence of God.

Okay, but neither of those fit the traditional definitions of hell (red-dudes with bifurcated-tails, horns, pitch-forks, and an affinity for charcoal or Dante's Infernal) and as such, they do not need/fit the appellation "hell".

[Koizito]

Originally Posted by rameumptom

We DO believe in hell. Actually, we believe in two hells. Upon dying, our spirits enter into the Spirit World, where a portion is called "paradise" for the righteous, and the wicked will go to "hell" where they will pay for their sins until they've fully repented and chosen Christ. For those who refuse to ever repent and believe on Christ, they will join the Devil in the eternal hell, entitled Outer Darkness, where they will be out of the presence of God.

That's good news for me then... I mean, if Christ doesn't mind showing himself to me, at least, I wouldn't have any problem believing him... But praise him... I wouldn't praise even god himself... Don't get me wrong, if god shows himself to me and prove that it was him who created us, I would be thankful... But between that and praise goes a long way...

[the Ogre]

Originally Posted by Koizito

That's good news for me then... I mean, if Christ doesn't mind showing himself to me, at least, I wouldn't have any problem believing him... But praise him... I wouldn't praise even god himself... Don't get me wrong, if god shows himself to me and prove that it was him who created us, I would be thankful... But between that and praise goes a long way...

Interestingly enough, I think eventually, before any final judgements by G-d can be made the existence of G-d will be obvious.

Pessimism is hilarious. I'm glad there are those who are happy to self-define and reinforce a position of polar-opposition. Being so simple is easy and makes life livable: no huge concerns and the option to just say "no", not listen, and not care is always available, because it just isn't important to life and co-existence right now. The real fun though is to do so on a religious forum hoping the zealots, the deluded G-d-nuts, the guys who think faith in the unverifiable is somehow a viable intellectual position will pour out of the wood-work to attempt to cast the very intelligent in some type of state of embarrassment or some assignment to "hell".

The real advantage to atheism is not believing in a cop-out like agnosticism, because who can argue with an undefinable argument.

Whatever. You want to ask: okay. You want to mock our belief in G-d: okay. It is okay as long as our dirt rubs off, right? Thank goodness you wouldn't believe in proof, most of us wouldn't be able provide it anyway. None of us are G-d. We're just people.

[bmy-]

Originally Posted by Koizito

That's good news for me then... I mean, if Christ doesn't mind showing himself to me, at least, I wouldn't have any problem believing him... But praise him... I wouldn't praise even god himself... Don't get me wrong, if god shows himself to me and prove that it was him who created us, I would be thankful... But between that and praise goes a long way...

Thankfully.. I do not think he's after our praise. He's a father. He just wants respect and the chance to watch us grow, imo. A firm handshake and a wink is better than the bending of the knee.. in my eyes.

I don't grovel.. nor will I.

A wolfhound must be a wolfhound in the wolf's eyes even more than in his own, if he is to survive.
-Lan Mandragoran

[Hemidakota]

Our gratitude [praises] of the FATHER for what HE does for us matures when we apply HIS will; a constant eternal spiral that increases as we continue on.

[Misshalfway]

Originally Posted by bmy-

Thankfully.. I do not think he's after our praise. He's a father. He just wants respect and the chance to watch us grow, imo. A firm handshake and a wink is better than the bending of the knee.. in my eyes.

I don't grovel.. nor will I.

A wolfhound must be a wolfhound in the wolf's eyes even more than in his own, if he is to survive.
-Lan Mandragoran

Except the part in the scriptures where it says "every knew shall bow".........

[Misshalfway]

Originally Posted by Koizito

That's good news for me then... I mean, if Christ doesn't mind showing himself to me, at least, I wouldn't have any problem believing him... But praise him... I wouldn't praise even god himself... Don't get me wrong, if god shows himself to me and prove that it was him who created us, I would be thankful... But between that and praise goes a long way...

Well, I think he does "prove" truth to us but I my experience is that it comes in different ways than perhaps we want. It is opening our eyes (some might call it our spiritual eyes) to see. And I think, at least in this earth life (don't know exactly how it all goes down in the spirit world), truth comes one bit at a time. And over time those bits blend into a nice understanding of the big picture.