A Few Questions

[Dust]

Originally Posted by pam

I guess I just don't understand. Christ as we know was perfect..there wasn't a need for him to be chastized by his Father. Perhaps it's just my interpretation of "sparing the rod" that makes the difference. I just don't understand it from your explanation.

I don't look upon the atonement as Christ being chastened on our account. I look at it as the most thoughtful acts anyone could have ever done. It almost makes it sound like Christ was punished for the sins of the world and that's not what the atonement was about. Or again, maybe just my understanding is flawed.

I think perhaps we might disagree with when the actual day of atonement was. As we both know, Christ died upon the Passover as it correlates to the deaths of the first born of Egypt for the deliverance of the Israelites from bondage. For us, this bondage is the slavery to sin (as Romans calls it). Passover is the 14th of Nissan.

About 6 months later on the 10th of Tishrei is the Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur. The Day of Atonement corresponds to the Day of Judgement as called in the New Testament. Prior to Yom Kippur, Moses went up Mount Sinai to speak with the Lord and to be given the Law to which the Israelites had to obey. When he came back down, he found the Israelites worshipping a golden calf and had many of them killed and destroyed for their idolatry (incidentally, the Father wanted to kill all of them, but Moses gave intercession).

Now we see that this is Christ. Christ went up the mountain (ascended) and he shall come back down the mountain when there is a state of wickedness amongst the earth. On this day, he shall destroy the wicked and save the righteous. Take notice that while Moses was on the mountain he gave intercession, just as Christ gives intercession for the believers. When he comes down, we will all have to atone for our sins.

Incidentally, major events of Christ's life corresponds to the feast days. He was born on the Feast of Tabernacles. He died on the Feast of Passover. Actually, I just found this website which looks like it talks about the feast days corresponding to the first and second coming of Jesus. It looks like an SDA site which I do not endorse, but at least the info about the feasts is good.

Well anyways, the day of Atonement has yet to come.

[pam]

Pam, Christ was punished for our sins. That what the suffering in Gethsame was about. He suffered for every sin past, present, and future, that any person would ever commit. That is why He suffered so much in the Garden. He bled from every pore and we can avoid such suffering when we choose to repent in the name of Jesus. He has suffered the punishment for our sin--if we accept His atonement, then the price for that sin was paid by Christ.

I guess I just don't consider it as "punishment." He took on our sins but I've never looked at it as Christ being punished per se. Just different interpretation I guess.

[beefche]

Originally Posted by pam

I guess I just don't consider it as "punishment." He took on our sins but I've never looked at it as Christ being punished per se. Just different interpretation I guess.

What is your interpretation? Why did Christ suffer in the Garden? Why did He die on the cross?

[beefche]

Originally Posted by Dust

I think perhaps we might disagree with when the actual day of atonement was. As we both know, Christ died upon the Passover as it correlates to the deaths of the first born of Egypt for the deliverance of the Israelites from bondage. For us, this bondage is the slavery to sin (as Romans calls it). Passover is the 14th of Nissan.

About 6 months later on the 10th of Tishrei is the Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur. The Day of Atonement corresponds to the Day of Judgement as called in the New Testament. Prior to Yom Kippur, Moses went up Mount Sinai to speak with the Lord and to be given the Law to which the Israelites had to obey. When he came back down, he found the Israelites worshipping a golden calf and had many of them killed and destroyed for their idolatry (incidentally, the Father wanted to kill all of them, but Moses gave intercession).

Now we see that this is Christ. Christ went up the mountain (ascended) and he shall come back down the mountain when there is a state of wickedness amongst the earth. On this day, he shall destroy the wicked and save the righteous. Take notice that while Moses was on the mountain he gave intercession, just as Christ gives intercession for the believers. When he comes down, we will all have to atone for our sins.

Incidentally, major events of Christ's life corresponds to the feast days. He was born on the Feast of Tabernacles. He died on the Feast of Passover. Actually, I just found this website which looks like it talks about the feast days corresponding to the first and second coming of Jesus. It looks like an SDA site which I do not endorse, but at least the info about the feasts is good.

Well anyways, the day of Atonement has yet to come.

One of the things that I absolutely love in the scriptures is all the symbolism. Jesus truly was prophecy in the Old Testament. Everything done in the Old Testament pointed to Christ. So, it's always interesting to read more and more about the culture and intricateness of Jewish life.

[ryanh]

I am SO thankful for modern revelation and prophecy that allows us a true understanding of the nature of God (and the atonement, etc, etc). Without such, it is clear than any point can be argued by using the Bible alone, and we are then simply left to wonder or believe whatever we will.

Arguing using personal interpretations from the Bible is useless, and I for one am not interested in engaging in it (besides, I'm not that scholarly anyway ).

We are so lucky to have the guidance of the Spirit and of authorized mouthpieces, are we not?

[rameumptom]

Dust,
I can prove from the Bible that there will be future prophets, and the Bible does not close the book on them. Agabus was a prophet that Paul believed in, AFTER the death of Jesus!
And further out, John the Revelator foresaw in the last days two prophets giving their prophecy in Jerusalem during the last tribulations and Armageddon (Revelation 11). If there are no more prophets, then why have two in the last days?
Obviously it is because the Lord ALWAYS works through a specific pattern of prophets and apostles. Amos 3:7 tells us that God reveals his secrets only through prophets. Ephesians 2:19-20 tells us that the Church of God is built upon the foundation of apostles and prophets, and in Eph 4:11-14, Paul explains that we still need them until we "all come unto a unity of faith" and so we are not tossed about by every wind of doctrine.
Peter foresaw a "restitution of all things" to occur prior to the 2nd Coming of Christ, and that this Restoration was foreseen by all the prophets of old (Acts 3:19-21).

As I've noted before, the Bible often hints at things that require living prophets to explain in detail. This is the reason for a Restoration.

The issue isn't one of discussing or disputing different readings of the Bible, it is an issue of whether God has called true prophets and apostles in our day. If he hasn't, then you can continue on in your own interpretations of the Bible. But if God has called new prophets to prepare the way for the 2nd Coming, THEN all the world needs to give heed to them and stop trying to find logical reasonings to ignore or reject those prophets.
I believe it is as important to follow the modern prophets as it was to follow Noah in the days prior to the Flood. I have no doubt many philosophers and religionists of his day were convinced they no longer needed prophets, as they were doing just fine with their own ideologies and religions.

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by Dust

Well anyways, the day of Atonement has yet to come.

I believe that the atonement is an ongoing thing, not just a singular event. Its first nadir was at Gethsemane and on the Cross, but the final resurrection is yet to occur, and so there is much for the atonement to continue accomplishing for us.
Every time a person repents, the atonement is an active force to cleanse and purify that soul. This will be true long after we are dead, also.