Very stuck on this LDS doctrine

[tubaloth]

That we can progress and be LIKE God, I'm OK with the word "like" in there. I think we will be God-like in the afterlife. I see references to that in the KJV, how we will be in glory with the Father.

But I think the same holds true. Isn't God "like" us. Aren't we created in his image. Doesn't God know how to do the things we do. How do you think God gained that knoweldge? Just in the same way that I can become like God, God is like me, because he created me that way.
I think your point is perfect, but I don't see how this likeness can only go one way? Can it?

[clark87]

Originally Posted by Lilac
Just briefly, I am bothered most by the "God was a man". I just don't see that anywhere in the KJV.

To tell you the truth, when I first heard the "God was a man", I struggled with it for a bit. It wasn't until later that a few thoughts occured to me.

If a person who has never read the bible or heard about Jesus Christ were to meet Jesus personally, they would recognize a perfect, trustworthy, loving being. They would recognize Jesus as their savior, their redeemer, their God. If they were to ask Jesus about his past, they may be surprised that as that person is now (a mortal human being), Christ once was. This would probably be very surprising and new to them.

However, upon learning more about the life of Christ, they would learn that mortality didn't diminish the divinity of Christ in any way. Because Christ came down into mortality, He has a full understanding of the pains and trials that we face here.

Likewise, the day will come when we will be able to meet our Heavenly Father. When we meet Him, we'll recognize his divinity and perfectness. Heavenly Father has a past (a very long one, for that matter), and the "God was a man" quote implies that Heavenly Father has also faced the trials of mortality. Just as going through mortality doesn't diminish the divinity of Christ, neither do I believe that Heavenly Father's going through mortality doesn't diminish His.

As for other Gods out there, what kind of life God had while a mortal, and other questions, all we have from here on is speculation. God seems to be a fan of eternal families - it would make sense if he's speaking from experience (aka He has a family, including parents, grandparents, and so forth of his own).

Honestly, I think God holds off on telling us because it's not pertinent for us to know right now. Further, perhaps He's saving that conversation for when we can hold it with Him personally in heaven.

[Lilac]

Originally Posted by deseretgov

Well it's not in the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, or Pearl of Great Price either.

So where does this teaching come from? I'm interested in that.


Someone asked what a Protestant view of God would be? It would be that God is the only god that there is. He is the Only One. There are no other gods; only our Lord. He is the Beginning and End. The Everything. The All. The Alpha and Omega.

A Protestant will stuggle with this LDS concept of there might be many gods but God is our only God that we should worship/know/love/serve. In my understanding and teaching/learning about God, there is no other god existing but Our Lord. If I hear about other gods, I just go blank. I don't know how to describe it any other way. To me, there is no other god but our God.

Unless, UNLESS you are telling me that there are false gods. There are plenty of false gods like in religion X or religion Y. They worship the sun or the moon or some spirit or something that I'm certainly not involved in or bother reading about. So, yeah, there are false gods. But our Lord is the only True God.

I want to quote another post, so I'll post again. I don't know how to quote multiple posts.

Blessings.

[Lilac]

Originally Posted by tubaloth

But I think the same holds true. Isn't God "like" us. Aren't we created in his image. Doesn't God know how to do the things we do. How do you think God gained that knoweldge? Just in the same way that I can become like God, God is like me, because he created me that way.
I think your point is perfect, but I don't see how this likeness can only go one way? Can it?

I know we are created in the image of God because the Bible tells me so. I have no Bible verses to support that God was once mortal, so I wouldn't teach that or think that. I can't really make any statement on it.

God knows things because He is God. He is omniscience/all knowing. Omnipotent/all powerful. Omnipresent/all present. I don't think He learned things like me. I think he is God and that is pretty much it.

Uh-oh, work is on the phone. I gotta run.

[clark87]

Good questions, Lilac. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert in this area, but I do know a bit, and I'll answer you as best as I know how.

So where does this teaching come from? I'm interested in that.

I'm guessing you're referring to the teachings of there being more than one God? To begin, I'd like to re-emphasis this: most of what church members know on this subject is largely speculation (it really is - we like to believe we know a lot on the subject, but we really don't).

Outside of that one quote "As man is, God once was", most of our knowledge about their being more than one god actually comes from the Bible. I know that in John 10:34, Jesus mentions that there are different definitions for "god". In this, he refers to "gods" as those "whom the word of God came," adding the phrase "and the scriptures cannot be broken". Also, in Psalms 82:6, it reads, "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Again, another definition of "gods" as "children of the most high". That's not even going into false gods (idols and such).

You mentioned that you're meeting with the missionaries? If you want to know more scriptures on the matter, look up in the "Topical Guide" in the back of the bible "Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father" (I'm not sure if bibles outside of the LDS church would have a topical guide, so you can ask to see the missionary's if you need to). These will point you to a ton of scriptures from the Bible, the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and Pearl of Great Price.

Ultimately, all you have to really know is that Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are real, and that it is through Jesus Christ that we are saved (and not through any other "gods" or other forces out there in the universe). Are there other gods like Heavenly Father? We really don't know, nor do we really need to know (or else God would have said more about them).

Like many subjects in the gospel, understanding all of this will require study and good prayer. You're just as entitled to recieving revelation from God as any of us.

Good luck, Lilac!

P.S. I'll try to log in later to see if you have any more questions. Let me know if this helped!

[Lilac]

Thank you Clark.

I am a Christian and probably what most people would describe as "devout". So, Jesus as Savior and God as my God. That's an easy one. I already have a deep faith. So does my husband and that is how we are raising our children.

Which is probably why I want to make sure that I understand the LDS doctrines clearly before I make an committment to it. The missionaires have discussed at length about not over-intellectualizing things and to rely on a direct revelation. I'm with that...somewhat. I have to feel secure that any Christian group that I join has an overall doctrine that is Biblically correct (as best we can figure) and I can feel comfortable saying "I"m LDS".

The missionaries were working on getting me a LDS topical guide to the KJV...I think they ran out or something? Then I had to cancel a meeting and I probably forgot about it the next time I met with them. I will ask them again what happened to that topical guide they were getting for me. Thanks for reminding me. That would be very helpful for me.

Thanks again for the posts. I am reading or will read all of what you guys suggested.

Blessings.

[tubaloth]

So where does this teaching come from? I'm interested in that.

It comes from prophets. Yes Modern day prophets.

I have to feel secure that any Christian group that I join has an overall doctrine that is Biblically correct (as best we can figure)

And I would hope one that is From God?
One thing that is different in the LDS church is that we aren't limited to just the bible. We believe that God has more to teach us then just what is in the bible. Bible is an account of what people learned during that time. We also believe That God teaches the gospel to other nations (reveled his word) and does so now.

A Protestant will struggle with this LDS concept of there might be many gods but God is our only God that we should worship/know/love/serve. In my understanding and teaching/learning about God, there is no other god existing but Our Lord. If I hear about other gods, I just go blank. I don't know how to describe it any other way. To me, there is no other god but our God.

And really there isn't anything wrong with that. Knowing that we can be like God or even that others can be like God doesn't affect who we are! Anything outside our salvation shouldn't matter. You aren't going to have lessons about this subject every week. You might have some refer to this idea ever now again. Thats the length of it. But it is a teaching in the church. Its not taught a lot, because not a lot is know. (about other gods)

I have no Bible verses to support that God was once mortal, so I wouldn't teach that or think that. I can't really make any statement on it.

Really we are kind of dealing with two parts here.
First what does God look like?
Second how does God Act?

What God looks like is probably a key point here (at least it is in my eyes). The LDS Church believes that God has a Physical Body of Flesh and Bones. That God has eyes ears and toes and everything else. So God looks just like we do expect glorified. Jesus Christ is the same way now. He has a Physical Body. Both of them appeared to Joseph Smith.
Knowing that God has a physical body, that he is just like I am. Realizes what I can become. I can become like my father.

Second is how does God act? Now at some point in time God had to learn. That seems like a new idea I know. But thats probably easier to comprehend then some all powerful being. But like I said in my first post we have to separate from how God got to where he is, and where is now. If it took God a trillion years to become Like his Father. That doesn't matter to me. What is important is that our Heavenly Father is God now.

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

Originally Posted by Lilac

I just wanted to pop in and say thank you for your responsess. I looked at them briefly but we are running around cleaning because the missionaries are coming after church and my house is really really trashed. It would be nice if they could sit on the sofa without a doll, lego, Barbie or someone's socks.

Just briefly, I am bothered most by the "God was a man". I just don't see that anywhere in the KJV. It really is a sticking point for me. My husband says "that could be a deal breaker". I do feel better that I don't have to attest to that and there is some room for personal interpretation.

That we can progress and be LIKE God, I'm OK with the word "like" in there. I think we will be God-like in the afterlife. I see references to that in the KJV, how we will be in glory with the Father.


The missionaries have told me to pray and see if I get a revelation. I don't feel I can pray openly and honestly if this is true unless I have a good understanding of LDS doctrine. I know I can't understand everything but I need to understand the big stuff. Maybe that is just me? But I finally figured out this is what I need to do.


Again, thank you for your help.

Many blessings

The way I always reconcile doctrines I've struggled with is by coming up with metaphors, I'm huge on those things.

So many times in my reading of the New Testament I've come across verses naming the followers of Christ "heirs" "heirs with Christ" "Joint-heirs." And I wonder...what does an heir do? Well...he inherits, he gains all that was willed to him/her. And what did Christ gain from the Father? Perfection. Perfection in authority, love, charity, power, and all godliness. If we are joint-heirs with Christ, then we stand to gain the same. But to do so we become like the Messiah, not boastful or prideful in our strengths, but humble and meek, submitting to the Father's will.

Picture it like this:

There is a home, with the father at the head of the home. As child we grow and learn from the father, and obey him and his will. However, eventually we become older, and move out. We create homes of our own, and have children, who will love and obey us. But we still regard our paternal parent as our father, and refer to him as such.

The same is with the gospel. God has given us a home, this earth, over which he is the head. We learn and grow here, obeying him in all things. We believe however that one day we will go out eventually and creates worlds and homes for our own children. Does this mean we forget the Father and his supremacy over us? One may then ask, can a son or daughter forget a loving parent, and cease to acknowledge their love for us? Heaven forbid!

This is a pattern repeated throughout eternity. Whether or not God was once a man like our current selves does not matter, he was still always our God.

Likewise, I don't refer to my dad as "Dave" up until 1990, and suddenly start calling him father afterward. I don't see pictures of him from his adolescence or early adulthood and say "Gee...so that was Dave..." I say "That's my dad."

God was always our God, and always will be.

[clark87]

The missionaires have discussed at length about not over-intellectualizing things and to rely on a direct revelation. I'm with that...somewhat. I have to feel secure that any Christian group that I join has an overall doctrine that is Biblically correct (as best we can figure) and I can feel comfortable saying "I"m LDS".

Heh, I can relate to the over-intellectualizing thing. I enjoy studying the scriptures and trying to learn things for myself. However... I've learned that sometimes I can't really come up with a satisfactory answer by my own. There are questions out there that simply finding scriptures or quotes isn't enough to really sate my soul. The time comes when you want to know enough that you start praying to God as if He was there in the room, just pouring out your soul to Him.

It's times like those that you learn that prayer really does work. It's really hard to describe or give it justice (it kind of feels too personal and sacred to fully talk about). Lilac, you genuinely want to learn these things so that you can know you're right with God. When you really get into that prayer, you'll come away feeling far more satisfied than any amount of scriptural references could give you. The missionaries are right - prayer really is the way.

[clark87]

I might recommend that, before praying to know about whether there are other gods out there (or any other complex or deep doctrine), first pray about the basics. Ask God if He really does talk with prophets today, if the message the prophets share really is God's message to the world, and if they're message is something God wants in your life. He cares about you, and he'll let you know all that and so much more. Once you know any of these things, the rest will fall into place - you may not fully understand the more complex doctrines, but you'll at least know God won't let the prophets lead you astray!