Very stuck on this LDS doctrine

[BenRaines]

God being man before God is not LDS doctrine. It was a statement given by a prophet many years ago.

While I believe it as I do a number of other things, that make sense to me. It does not make it doctrine.

Ben Raines

[bytebear]

I always point people who have this question to these scriptures. I think you should read them, study and ponder them, and decide for yourself how it all works.

Topical Guide: Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father

[AnthonyB]

I must say this particular doctrinal area still gets me confused.

If exulataton is needed to become a God and exultaton requires both embodiement and marriage, how does that fit in with the three examplesw of the persons of God that we have.

The Holy Spirit has never been embodied nor married.

Jesus was eternal God before he was embodied and scripture never mentions his marital state (although most presume him to be single and given his request during his cruxifiction to ensure John looked after his mum, if he had had a wife surely he would have done the same).

No scripture mentions God the Father being embodied as a mortal, it comes only from the thoughts of one of your latter day prophets.

[FunkyTown]

Originally Posted by Lilac

I know we are created in the image of God because the Bible tells me so. I have no Bible verses to support that God was once mortal, so I wouldn't teach that or think that. I can't really make any statement on it.

God knows things because He is God. He is omniscience/all knowing. Omnipotent/all powerful. Omnipresent/all present. I don't think He learned things like me. I think he is God and that is pretty much it.

Uh-oh, work is on the phone. I gotta run.

Hey, Lilac.

I should point out that Protestants do believe God did become Mortal.

They believe he and Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one. Therefore: Mortal.

Now, as to the actual question:

You read those verses and perceive that God was once a sinner like you, correct? You take issue with this because God is perfect, from beginning to end. He is the Alpha and Omega, correct?

And this raises all sorts of sticky issues like: Who was His God? And His God? And His God? Who started it all? Why not worship him?

I ask this because we need a common ground of understanding. I can tell you what Gordon B. Hinckley said about these things, but I'm uncertain it would be helpful until we get to the heart of what you really are concerned about.

[lattelady]

For Lilac,
Just a quick comment on a couple of Bible scriptures that have been mentioned as supportive of the idea the there are "gods" (more than one God) spoken of in the Bible. I believe the Psalms reference has come up a couple of times (Psalm 82:6), and then one that was from Clark87: John 10:37. Clark87, you mentioned (I believe it was you...I hope I have the right name) that in John 10:37 God mentions different definitions for gods? The scripture actually reads, "Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does." Maybe you typed the wrong reference?
The Psalm 82:6 is one that seems to be repeatedly taken out of context. This verse is not referring to "gods" in the sense of deities at all. If you read the whole chapter in it's context you'll understand it better. In it, the psalmist is talking about a "great assembly" in heaven that God is presiding over. And during this assembly, He's giving judgment among the "gods."
The language of the Old Testament--and in the ancient Near East--rulers and judges were sometimes given the title "god." (Even Pharoahs of Egypt were sometimes referred to this way).
God judges them for their partiality to the wicked and unjust. God puts rulers and judges in place, whether they know Him or not.
But this verse isn't talking about the reality of many gods (deities to be worshipped); you have to read it in its context.

[Dr T]

I like that you are focusing on what the Bible says and looking at doctrine. Keep doing that, stick with it and see if the other LDS stuff is not from their own works or extra-biblical before you decide.

[PastorBob]

While I am not a member, I can say conclusively, that the church does not support the doctrine of God as man, due to this statement by Gordon B. Hinckley:

August 4, 1997 issue of Time magazine.

Q: Just another related question that comes up is the statements in the King Follet discourse by the Prophet.

A: Yeah

Q: ... about that, God the Father was once a man as we were. This is something that Christian writers are always addressing. Is this the teaching of the church today, that God the Father was once a man like we are?

A: I don’t know that we teach it. I don’t know that we emphasize it. I haven’t heard it discussed for a long time in public discourse. I don’t know. I don’t know all the circumstances under which that statement was made. I understand the philosophical background behind it. But I don’t know a lot about it and I don’t know that others know a lot about it.

The Mormon Church would not teach a satanic doctrine, in my humble opinion.

Lucifer was cast from heaven for believing he could become like or a God:

Isaiah 14:

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Adam and Eve were cast out of the Garden of Eden for the same reason as Lucifer was cast out of heaven, when he told them to try and do what he did:

1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

[Just_A_Guy]

Originally Posted by lattelady

The Psalm 82:6 is one that seems to be repeatedly taken out of context. This verse is not referring to "gods" in the sense of deities at all. If you read the whole chapter in it's context you'll understand it better. In it, the psalmist is talking about a "great assembly" in heaven that God is presiding over. And during this assembly, He's giving judgment among the "gods."
The language of the Old Testament--and in the ancient Near East--rulers and judges were sometimes given the title "god." (Even Pharoahs of Egypt were sometimes referred to this way).
God judges them for their partiality to the wicked and unjust. God puts rulers and judges in place, whether they know Him or not.

But I don't think that's how Jesus Himself interpreted that Psalm. In John 10:33-36, Jesus is accused of blasphemy because he, "being a man, makest [Him]self God". Jesus retorts by quoting that scripture.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

If Jesus thought the Psalm only referred to making oneself a judge or a ruler, then His play on words here is quite disingenuous and doesn't answer His accusers at all.

[lattelady]

JustAGuy, his retort answers his accusers very well if you understand Him to mean that He is claiming to be God--because He IS God. He is not JUST the Son of God, He is also GOD. (This points to the teaching of the Trinity, but I realize that the LDS church doesn't believe in the Trinity--as in, One God in three persons). It's why He said in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." This is when they picked up stones to kill Him--they understood quite well what He was inferring--He was claiming to be God.
God, in Psalm 84 called judges and rulers 'gods', and they were divinely appointed by Him. John 10:35 "If he called them 'gods', unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; v.36--"say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
It absolutely answers his accusers, as He is saying (Paraphrase)--if men can be titled "gods" (as in judges and rulers), how much more should the term be allowed of the One who the Father sent--Jesus; this is understood, in this context, to those who believe Jesus is God. Even the Jews understood that and were angered by it!

[lattelady]

The quote that PastorBob posted above from President Gordon B. Hinckley has honestly confused me. I, as a non-member can (if I want to) bring up quite a bit of information/quotes from a variety of past prophets and church leaders in reference to thoughts like:--"As man now is, God once was;..." Joseph Smith and Brigham young both taught that God was once a man (not anti-mormon jargon, just quotes from former leaders of the LDS church).
I don't understand why President Hinckley would have treated the question that way, with so many "I don't know's..."
Can anyone answer that for me?