LDS church on Ephesians 2:8-9

[curtishouse]

It seems that those that believe in faith alone always point to Ephesians 2:8-9 as their number one verse to show that faith is all it takes for salvation. I was wondering how the LDS church interprets this passage...Thanks!

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9, KJV

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Originally Posted by curtishouse

It seems that those that believe in faith alone always point to Ephesians 2:8-9 as their number one verse to show that faith is all it takes for salvation. I was wondering how the LDS church interprets this passage...Thanks!

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9, KJV

One has to understand what it refers to, what we are saved from. This is where mainstream Christianity gets mixed up with their myriad of philosophical meanderings.

Paul taught that Sin and Death came into the world by one man. Because of this, we are rightly condemned because of this nature and propensity to sin. We also suffer physical death.

When you think about it, Sin is the act of separation. When we sin, we are literally rebelling against God. A simple analogy would be that when you see the speed limit is 50 MPH and you are doing 70 MPH, you are separating yourself from those who are obeying the speed limit. Because of this, you suffer the consequences. If caught, you are given a ticket for the violation. This ticket comes with a fine that you have to pay in retribution.

Because of Adam and Eve's transgression, they sinned against the commandment of God. They, therefore, were held accountable and were punished for this transgression. Part of this punishment is mortality, mortal existence and subjection to physical death. Physical death being the separation of the flesh and spirit.

Therefore, Sin is the separation of oneself from the commandments of God, and Death is the separation of one's spirit and flesh.

Now, if there were no redeemer, man would no longer exist past his mortality. He would die in his transgressions, there would be no hope for him.

How then could man save himself from Sin and Death?

This is where the power of the atonement comes into play. The very purpose why the Levitical/Mosaic law pointed too. Christ fulfilled the Atonement. He conquered Sin and Death. Christ did this by living a perfect and obedient life to the will and commandments of the Father. He also became the sacrifice necessary to redeem mankind from his fallen state. Because of this, we are no longer held accountable for Adam's transgression. In fact, Paul points this out when he says that by one man came sin and death and by another came life eternal.

So, when it comes to the doctrine of Grace, this refers to two things that we could not do of our own accord. We could not provide the sufficient retribution to pay the fine imposed upon us because of the consequence of Sin, nor could we place ourselves in the position to Conquer death.

How then did Jesus Christ conquer death? He rose again the third day with a body of flesh and bone, a resurrected being who now is immortal with a body that is eternal and without corruption.

Therefore, we are saved first because Christ conquered sin, provided the necessary atonement sacrifice needed to redeem mankind from his and her sins and transgressions, as well as conquering death - which we could not do in and of ourselves.

This, therefore, does not mean that we are saved and therefore do not need to obey the commandments of Jesus Christ. On the Contrary, we are saved initially and justified, but now we have to live our live in accordance to the will and desires of Heavenly Father. We secure the saving Grace that is bestowed upon us by growing from faith to faith, and evidence our faith by the works that are produced because Christ says, that a good tree can in no way produce bad fruit just as much as a bad tree can in no way produce good fruit.

[ryanh]

I would highly suggest the book (also suggested by mnn727 in another of your questions) Believing Christ by Stephen Robinson That book walks through the LDS perspective on faith/grace/works and how it is all balanced. It's not a long or difficult read - 125 pages.

[prisonchaplain]

It dawns on me that often, in simplistic terms, LDS view the salvation-by-grace-alone position as lazy. On the other hand, we evangelicals often see the LDS emphasis on works as arrogant. Most evangelicals are not lazy, and most LDS are not arrogant. Perhaps a few on each side are (lazy or arrogant), and lopsided doctrinal understanding may play a small part in that malady. Be especially aware when the religionist is both lazy and arrogant! :-)

[beefche]

Here are a couple of talks by church leaders (President Faust passed away, but we sustained him as a prophet). President Faust's talk linky. Elder Lund's talk linky.

[curtishouse]

Originally Posted by beefche

Here are a couple of talks by church leaders (President Faust passed away, but we sustained him as a prophet). President Faust's talk linky. Elder Lund's talk linky.

Talk linky? Is that the official term? LOL Thanks!

[beefche]

Originally Posted by curtishouse

Talk linky? Is that the official term? LOL Thanks!

Absolutely. One thing you will learn is that Mormons have their own lingo. Stake center, FHE, WoW, linky....

There's a thread here somewhere that lists a lot of the common abbreviations, lingo, and (I can't remember the word now--when abbreviations become words). Someone smarter than I can probably find it quickly.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Originally Posted by beefche

Absolutely. One thing you will learn is that Mormons have their own lingo. Stake center, FHE, WoW, linky....

There's a thread here somewhere that lists a lot of the common abbreviations, lingo, and (I can't remember the word now--when abbreviations become words). Someone smarter than I can probably find it quickly.

It is officially called Mormonese:tr ampoline:

[Misshalfway]

Originally Posted by curtishouse

It seems that those that believe in faith alone always point to Ephesians 2:8-9 as their number one verse to show that faith is all it takes for salvation. I was wondering how the LDS church interprets this passage...Thanks!

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9, KJV

Mormons absolutely believe that it is through grace that we are saved because there is not much a fallen person can do to save themselves. We believe that because Jesus did sacrifice for us that he sets the terms for us to acquire the gift. We believe that Jesus paid the debt and freed us from that obligation by switching our debt to him. He then asks us to make a covenant or agreement with him. He will forgive us and cleanse us/save us and in return we promise to repent and obey his commandments for the rest of our lives. And thus begins the process of applying faith, repenting, being changed and given new birth thru baptism and conversion.

It is often misunderstood that Mormons believe that works alone save us....that we have the power thru righteous living to create a salvation for ourselves. This is a misunderstanding of our doctrine.

We believe as it says in James 2 that "faith without works" is dead. If one believes with devotion but does not keep the commandments, then the sin and separation from God returns and the person takes themselves out of the covenant relationship with Christ. Repentance is the only way to restore it. And so, as men with always fall short and make mistakes, repentance is something we need on a daily basis. Repentance, is a work but also an expression of faith. If I say I believe Jesus will forgive sins, but I don't repent and forsake my sins, Jesus's vast power CANNOT save me. Because I must do my part for the mercy and grace to be available to me.

This principle goes along with all of God's commandments whether it be believing or to be baptised or all the "thou shalt not's" including murder and lying and adultry, etc etc. Obedience is the embodiment of faith. James 2:26 "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

Our obedience can't save us without Christ's help. And Jesus can't save us without our cooperation. Requiring obedience is part of the grace and part of the mercy. It also helps fulfill God's objectives because in our minds God is not just saving us. He is preparing us to receive the greatest of His blessings and the process of preparation is one that literally changes the nature of the individual. Obedience opens the door so that Christ can do His best work on our souls. Part of it is his. Part is ours. It is all love and all grace and all mercy and all the two edged sword of God.

When people say they are "saved", we feel that this is an inappropriate label or term for what beng born again really is. Salavation and exhaltation can only be granted after this probationary life is over. Being born again is a new beginning and it only defines that moment in time as a persons choices can change that status or enhance that status throughout their lives based on how well they live the gospel and repent when needed. This is why we don't subscribe to a heaven-hell model. Because each heart has such a individual state of righteousness and wickedness. Rewards given according to degrees makes more sense to us. And it also, imo, illustrates how grace and mercy works also.

[rameumptom]

Originally Posted by curtishouse

It seems that those that believe in faith alone always point to Ephesians 2:8-9 as their number one verse to show that faith is all it takes for salvation. I was wondering how the LDS church interprets this passage...Thanks!

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast." - Ephesians 2:8-9, KJV

LDS believe in a near universal salvation. Salvation means to be redeemed from the 2nd death and eternal hell.

All that is required to be saved is to believe in Christ's atonement and repent.

Now, LDS also believe there are levels of salvation or heaven (2 Corinthians 12:1-4, D&C 76). The level of salvation we receive is determined by our faithfulness. Faithfulness is the internal level of faith we have, which is naturally expressed by external obedience. We cannot resurrect nor save ourselves, regardless of the good works we do. However, we can BECOME more Christ-like, and more capable of receiving the greater light into our own lives. This becoming does require obedience and walking in Christ's footsteps. While we are already saved, we should also seek and strive to be more Christ-like and be able to receive a greater reward for our faith and faithfulness.

We believe there are levels of grace/salvation. D&C 93 teaches that the mortal Christ went from grace to grace, receiving grace for grace, until he received a fullness of the Father, and that we should seek to do the same.