Is Heavenly Father the First God?

[curtishouse]

According to LDS doctrine, is Heavenly Father the First God? Jesus Christ, as well as all of us, are children of His but is there a God above Heavenly Father? I'm sure our finite brains can't truly comprehend this but I'm trying to get it straight as I possibly can...Since Jesus Christ is God and attained it, I'm assuming that Heavenly Father became a God in the same such manner? If so, did Heavenly Father have a Father as well? It's almost like a spirit genealogy LOL Well hopefully y'all get what I'm talking about. Any answers on this would be greatly appreciated.

[symphonyofdissent]

The correct answer to this question is that we do not know! Joseph Smith and others hypothesized that answer was that there was an chain of gods. ( I hold a different view myself but its merely speculative) However, we know nothing about God aside from his encounters with mankind.

I suggest Moses 1 in the Pearl of Great Price

36 And it came to pass that Moses spake unto the Lord, saying: Be merciful unto thy servant, O God, and tell me concerning this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, and also the heavens, and then thy servant will be content.
37 And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine.
38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.
39 For behold, this is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.
40 And now, Moses, my son, I will speak unto thee concerning this earth upon which thou standest; and thou shalt write the things which I shall speak.

Moses is asking God to reveal to him the mysteries of the universe. Perhaps he is grappling with exactly these sorts of metaphysical questions. God's response is to tell Moses that he is God and that the mysteries of the universe are his. All that we need to know is that what God is doing for us. He is working to bring to pass our immortality and eternal life which is an incredible thing indeed.

[Misshalfway]

Hi Curtis. I just wanted to say that I appreciate the gentle manner in which you ask your questions. It makes answering so much more enjoyable.

You are now in speculation territory as far as LDS doctrine is concern. This is a mystery of God to discover truly how Gods came to be. There is a scripture in the D&C 121 that gives us another glimmer. This revelation came while the prophet Joseph Smith and others were imprisioned in Liberty Jail. JSmith was crying to God concerning why he was called to suffer so and why God seemed not to intervene. The Lord answers Joseph's question by opening his mind to a more eternal perspective of things and told Joseph of a time when (as it says in vs. 28) ,..."A time to come in the which nothing (meaning knowledge) shall be withheld, whether there be one God or many gods, they shall be manifest."

We don't know where our Father came from. We don't' know exactly how He came to be. We have been given little peeks that, IMO, sometimes cause more confusion than clarity and sometimes cause people to define a truth when perhaps they shouldn't.

On another thread of yours, you and Pam were talking about puzzle pieces and learning spiritual truths "line upon line, precept upon precept." I think what happens is that the Lord gives a few pieces to the puzzle, and we in our impatience finish the puzzle in our minds before He does. Sometimes I hear LDS's people get really empassioned about these mysteries and share their finished puzzles when perhaps they are only the ideas of men mingled with scripture. You see what I am saying?

Now......let's say there is more than one Father God out there in the great expanse. What would that mean for us? Absolutely nothing. It just means that their may be life beyond our universe....beyond our frame of reference or influence. And their existance to us today is irrelevant. We answer to our Father. If my dad says be home at 10pm yet all the other dad's in the neighborhood set different curfews, it matters not because I must answer only to my father.

Does that make sense?

I also want to say something about Jesus. Our understanding of Jesus and how he progressed is perhaps a little better understood, but that doesn't mean there aren't some profound puzzle pieces missing. I am uncomfortable thinking that Jesus developed from an imperfect being into a perfect one. That is not what even our beloved BofM teaches. We are to understand fundamentally now that the Godhead, all members, are all powerful and omniscient and omnipresent and the same today, tomorrow and forever. I am learning, I think, that one's spiritual nature can stay constant while perhaps ones physical body needs progression. It would seem to me that even the idea of the Trinity includes that perfection remains even though a God would come to earth to change physically.

I have advised this before with other inquiries, but I will say it again. It may be more important at this stage of the game for you, and maybe for most of the rest of us, to make sure that we understand the PRINCIPLE of eternal progression. How it happens for the Godhead and for us, may have some fundamental differences. But eternal progression is a principle that is part of the fabric of eternal law. I don't know......Get yourself a cup of hot chocolate and give that a pondering.

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by curtishouse

According to LDS doctrine, is Heavenly Father the First God?

...

Since Jesus Christ is God and attained it, I'm assuming that Heavenly Father became a God in the same such manner?

...

If so, did Heavenly Father have a Father as well?

I think you already answered your questions. This isn't really something we have a lot of information on, and I don't think that it's anything that is truly important for us to know as we go through this life. But I think you already gave an excellent answer:

I'm sure our finite brains can't truly comprehend this...

(By the way, I like the phrase "spirit genealogy."

[BenRaines]

As far as it matters to me He is the only God, The Father, that I have. I believe His Son to be a God too, a member of the Godhead but as far as God The Father he is the only one I believe in and revere.

All the rest is guessing and really for our personal salvation does not matter.

Ben Raines

[curtishouse]

Part of the reason I bring this up is certain verses like this that state:

Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

According to this Scripture, there are no other Gods. What is the LDS interpretation of this?

[curtishouse]

Originally Posted by Misshalfway

Hi Curtis. I just wanted to say that I appreciate the gentle manner in which you ask your questions. It makes answering so much more enjoyable.

No problem. I'm pretty laid back and just sincerely looking and learning. I think that's what drives me away from Theology forums for the most part. Just way too much yelling LOL

You are now in speculation territory as far as LDS doctrine is concern. This is a mystery of God to discover truly how Gods came to be. There is a scripture in the D&C 121 that gives us another glimmer. This revelation came while the prophet Joseph Smith and others were imprisioned in Liberty Jail. JSmith was crying to God concerning why he was called to suffer so and why God seemed not to intervene. The Lord answers Joseph's question by opening his mind to a more eternal perspective of things and told Joseph of a time when (as it says in vs. 28) ,..."A time to come in the which nothing (meaning knowledge) shall be withheld, whether there be one God or many gods, they shall be manifest."

It's good to know that this is speculation so the LDS church doesn't have an official teaching on this. Also that revelation that the Lord revealed to Joseph Smith definitely gives me hope that hopefully someday the truth will be revealed.

On another thread of yours, you and Pam were talking about puzzle pieces and learning spiritual truths "line upon line, precept upon precept." I think what happens is that the Lord gives a few pieces to the puzzle, and we in our impatience finish the puzzle in our minds before He does. Sometimes I hear LDS's people get really empassioned about these mysteries and share their finished puzzles when perhaps they are only the ideas of men mingled with scripture. You see what I am saying?

I definitely get what you're saying. That's why I'm taking it all piece by piece. If I was somehow given the whole puzzle by Heavenly Father in its Fullness right off the bat, my head would probably explode from my lack of understanding LOL

Now......let's say there is more than one Father God out there in the great expanse. What would that mean for us? Absolutely nothing. It just means that their may be life beyond our universe....beyond our frame of reference or influence. And their existance to us today is irrelevant. We answer to our Father. If my dad says be home at 10pm yet all the other dad's in the neighborhood set different curfews, it matters not because I must answer only to my father.

Does that make sense?

Great analogy!

I have advised this before with other inquiries, but I will say it again. It may be more important at this stage of the game for you, and maybe for most of the rest of us, to make sure that we understand the PRINCIPLE of eternal progression. How it happens for the Godhead and for us, may have some fundamental differences. But eternal progression is a principle that is part of the fabric of eternal law. I don't know......Get yourself a cup of hot chocolate and give that a pondering.

What exactly is the principle of eternal progression? I understand the basic concept of it but is there a link or could you tell me more about it to make sure were on the same page? Thanks!

[curtishouse]

Originally Posted by BenRaines

All the rest is guessing and really for our personal salvation does not matter.

Ben Raines

This is an interesting topic in itself. According to LDS doctrine, what exactly did Jesus's death on the cross save us from? It seems that only the sons of perdition will be the ones to burn in Hell for all eternity, correct? Then what exactly is it? I know I have so many questions but it's just a burden y'all are gonna have to bear LOL

[xforeverxmetalx]

I've wondered about that awhile ago... I figured, maybe there was a god of gods, and there were other universes with their own gods, possibly, but then who created that god? and who created that one? obviously we don't know much at all, but I just figured that God always existed. doesn't make logical sense, but neither does the concept of time never beginning or ending. it's complicated, we're not supposed to understand it.

Originally Posted by curtishouse

This is an interesting topic in itself. According to LDS doctrine, what exactly did Jesus's death on the cross save us from? It seems that only the sons of perdition will be the ones to burn in Hell for all eternity, correct? Then what exactly is it? I know I have so many questions but it's just a burden y'all are gonna have to bear LOL

if I understand correctly, we still suffer for our sins, just not eternally.

[curtishouse]

Originally Posted by xforeverxmetalx

if I understand correctly, we still suffer for our sins, just not eternally.

Is that talked about in the Bible anywhere? When it comes to suffering or condemnation, the Bible says this:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.