LDS Take on Isaiah 44:6

[curtishouse]

I was wondering what the LDS church's take on Bible verses such as Isaiah 44:6 which states:

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

I have been under the impression as discussing things on here the last few days that Heavenly Father is a God, Jesus Christ is a God, The Holy Spirit is a God and, even debatably (is that even a word? lol) Heavenly Father's "wife" is a god as well...How does all of this reconcile with Isa 44:6?

[mnn727]

My personal opinon is that many people latch onto one verse and ignore all the other verses that may contradict it or clairify it.
We also do not believe in Prophets being infallible or that GOd has preserved the Bible with exactly the information He wants us to have. We also know that the Bible has been translated many times and to say that any version says exactly what the original writer meant is way too much of a stretch.
Now having said that, we believe God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are 3 individuals that make up one Godhead

[Misshalfway]

There is no other God besides God the Father, even inside the Godhead. The Son does the will of the Father and so does the Holy Ghost. If there are other "gods" out in the great expanse they have nothing whatsoever to do with this earth. There is ONLY God and the Godhead which is the same god because they are in absolutely oneness and harmony with each other. No competition for followers. No competing wills or agendas.

It is my understanding that the audience for these Isaiah scriptures was a group of people that were often tempted to worship idols and other gods from other cultures. I think that the vrse is trying to not only teach a truth, but keep the people focused on the only god that could save them.

[SeattleTruthSeeker]

Originally Posted by curtishouse

I was wondering what the LDS church's take on Bible verses such as Isaiah 44:6 which states:

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

I have been under the impression as discussing things on here the last few days that Heavenly Father is a God, Jesus Christ is a God, The Holy Spirit is a God and, even debatably (is that even a word? lol) Heavenly Father's "wife" is a god as well...How does all of this reconcile with Isa 44:6?

First, you have to understand the Shema of Hebraic thought. Shema is based on Dueteronomy 6:4 "Hear O Israel, the LORD is our God, the LORD is One" (Jewish Virtual Library and Hebrews4Christians).

The context is that Israel is not that far removed from Ancient Near Eastern religious thoughts and practices where Polytheistic beliefs were strongly held, interchanged, and understood across different cultures and backgrounds. This is plainly evidenced in the Old Testament.

However, when you render the Shema in its original Hebrew Language, you have it say this:

Shema Yisrael, Adonai eloheinu, Adonai, echad (which is a more modern Hebrew context).

Adonai is Lord in Hebrew. Another rendering of this is where Adonia is with YHWH and God is Elohim.

It is here in this context that one has to understand true Hebrew Monotheism.

When we get to Isaiah 44:6, we see the full development of Israelite Monotheism in that YHWH is the only God of Israel, compared to the polytheistic pantheon of those surrounding Israel.

In fact, another passage that provides some aspect to this is that of Deuteronomy 32:8-9 (which is mistranslated in the Masoretic Text, and has academically been proven through empirical evidence) that YHWH's inheritance was Israel.

The current rendering is:

8When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel. 9For the LORD's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

Comparing this with the discovery of the Ugaritic Text and the LXX, we have a different rendering:

When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,

when he divided humankind;

he set the bounds of the peoples

according to the number of the children of El,

and the Lord’s portion was his people.

Jacob, the lot of his inheritance.

Scholars admit that Israelite Polytheism represented a more authentic understanding this passage where it is believed that the Israelites believed in a pantheon much similar to that of Canaan, Egypt and other Semitic races. However, it is more understood in the context of Henotheistic rendering than polytheistic because Israel believed that there existed a pantheon of Gods and El being the Most High God in the pantheon. This makes even more sense when one comes across passages like that of Job where it says, "And the sons of God came and presented themselves, and Satan came also among them".

It is important to understand this because when Christ comes to preach the Gospel and fulfill his mission, he claims divinity, but he also claims that he is separate and distinct from the Father. To the point that Christ claims that he existed with the Father, that the Father sent him, that the Father taught Him, and that he existed before Abraham and is the Great I AM. Furthermore, Matthew 23 and 24 is a very interesting set of passages that are very eschatological by nature, but it is in Matthew 24 that Christ laments over the city of Jerusalem and the Israelites by declaring that he had gathered them many times before.

So, when the Latter-day Saints say that we believe in the Godhead, we do accept that there are three Gods, separate and distinct from one another, however, we believe that they are One in unified purpose, and harmony. The simplest analogy is to say that the Family is One, while there exists three or more separate and distinct individuals who make up that family.

[bytebear]

Originally Posted by curtishouse

I was wondering what the LDS church's take on Bible verses such as Isaiah 44:6 which states:

Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

I have been under the impression as discussing things on here the last few days that Heavenly Father is a God, Jesus Christ is a God, The Holy Spirit is a God and, even debatably (is that even a word? lol) Heavenly Father's "wife" is a god as well...How does all of this reconcile with Isa 44:6?

For clarity, I would change your understanding of LDS belief a bit. We would not say:

Heavenly Father is a God, Jesus Christ is a God, The Holy Spirit is a God and, even debatably (is that even a word? lol) Heavenly Father's "wife" is a god as well

We would say:

Heavenly Father is a god, Jesus Christ is a god, The Holy Spirit is a god and Heavenly Father is God, Jesus Christ is God, The Holy Spirit is God. The Bible, Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants all affirm that the Godhead is ONE GOD, regardless of how many beings are in it.

As to Heavenly Mother, there is only an understanding that she exists, but we have no knowledge of her role, and she is not part of the Godhead (despite the musings of some feminists).

[Just_A_Guy]

I have a slightly different take on this: I take it as a bit of scriptural hyperbole.

Remember in Kindergarten Cop, where Arnold Schwarzenegger screams to his class "There IS no bathroom!!!!

Now, is he literally correct? Of course not. The point he's making is, "from your perspective there is no bathroom!" (I'm not going to let you go, so there may as well not be one.)

Reading Isaiah 44 in context, you see that trinitarian notions were not at all the issue here. Isaiah's preaching against idolatry, and in this context it makes perfect sense for Isaiah to say "there are no other gods!" Because from the perspective of Isaiah's hearers--there aren't. Jehovah is God. Not Ishtar; not Baal; not Ashur or Marduk or Horus or Osiris. Jehovah. Period.

[rameumptom]

Many scholars, including, Margaret Barker, Old Testament scholar and Methodist preacher, suggests a different view.

Ancient Israel believed in a pantheon of gods. They were all divine sons of El Elyon/Elohim. El Elyon gave each of his sons an earthly kingdom to rule over, kind of as a training period for them. Israel, his choicest land, was given to Jehovah/Yahweh.

These divine sons were continually challenging one another for primacy. In Job 1, we see that several of the divine sons of El Elyon (including the Adversary, or Satan) went to Yahweh to challenge him for primacy over the land of Israel.

In Isaiah's day, the Canaanite God, Yam, fell to Baal. One of the divine sons overcame another and took his land. In Isaiah, the Lord Yahweh was telling the Israelites that he was not like Yam or Baal. There was no God before him (Yam did not precede him), and there would be no God after him (Baal would not replace him).

When placed in ancient context, the verse makes complete sense.