Becoming a God?

[Brother Dorsey]

Originally Posted by On_Fire_For_Christ

Well, you have to remember that Joseph Smith Jr was 14 when he had this so called "Revelation." That is younger then me... How do you KNOW that he did not just make up a story?...

Actually....it was a vision, and I'll answer your question with a question....How do you know God actually called the boy David to be the spiritual leader of Israel? The answer is simple faith and an acknowledgment from the Spirit of the truth.

Also...

He clams that both Jesus & God visited him, and they spoke face to face...but the Bible says that no man can see Gods face and live... I see a contradiction here.

BTW: Moses did NOT speck face to face, God hid Moses in the cleft of a rock and showed him His back side.

So you believe God has a face? I guess you would have to believe that since the Bible says that God has a face.
Does that mean He has a body too?
He must have a body because the Bible says He has a backside because He showed it to Moses!
Cool....thanks man, you just proved to me that the Bible says God has a physical body that we can see.
Awesome dude!
No one can see Gods face and live? What about Adam and Eve...did they not walk with God in the Garden?
What about Jesus...isn't He God?
And....If God wanted to show Himself and His Son to someone...why couldn't He?
Isn't He God...can't He do anything He wants?

[Brother Dorsey]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

Here's my question: I'm sure many LDS faithful have encountered Protestants and Catholics who were scandalized by the doctrine of exaltation to godhood. I'm guessing that explanations would be somewhat detailed and would take time. How have you handled these conversations--or did they inevitably lead to "Let's agree to disagree?"

PC....with the LDS church it all boils down to the belief of continuing revelation from God.
Most of Christendom believes all that we need to know about God and the Gospel is contained in the Bible. A compilation of Christian writings which was assembled by inspiration under the authority of a pagan Roman leader some 300 years after Christ lived. With much of the doctrine being creedal. On the other hand you have the LDS church which uses not only the Bible but another witness of Christ teachings in the Book of Mormon....however this compilation of writings was given to mankind by revelation which makes it a truer account of the Gospel along with further modern day revelation to bring to light the truths that were lost or changed by the hand of man over the centuries as well as other truths given to us line upon line and precept upon precept. The LDS believe in a possibility of obtaining godhood because we believe that God Himself told us we can. You won't find that in the Bible because the Bible is revelation from 2000 years ago. When confronted by someone of another faith regarding the godhood thing or any other truths given to us through modern revelation. I just tell them it's because we believe in Modern revelation and you don't. They have the Bible and we have the Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price and a living Prophet.
But, PC, as LDS we have been chastised by most of Christendom. I am constantly hearing them say we don't believe in the same Jesus of the Bible. I often wonder why they would say that? It's almost as if they think we don't revere the Bible as much as they do....or perhaps they think because we have the BofM we take the Bible lightly or something. This is so far from the truth. It is so frustrating to me because I love the Bible and I love my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Why are the LDS attacked so much?

[cgrantreed]

Originally Posted by Deeper

I was just wondering because I am not all to sure, after the Celestial Heaven, is it then that we become a God? I have heard a few different things and am not sure...

Its part of the "bigger" picture Deep. Take life as it is and look at it a little deeper. Some of its doctrine and some of its, well... not as much doctrine:-) We came here from the preexistence to get bodies and progress. After we die, we go to Heaven or hell depending on what we made of ourselves in our time. If we make it to the highest degrees of the Celestial Kingdom we believe that we get to progress to Godhood. Now if you put it in perspective whith what came before and what could lie ahead...God had to come from somewhere. He didn't just wake up one day and POOF there He was. He had a path that He had to follow to get where He is today. We will too. How soon after we reach our Glory that we become Gods in our own right no one knows but it makes sense that it is possible. That is part of the purpose of why we are here...to see if we are cut from the cloth of gods.

Originally Posted by On_Fire_For_Christ

Well, you have to remember that Joseph Smith Jr was 14 when he had this so called "Revelation." That is younger then me... How do you KNOW that he did not just make up a story?...

I love that question... I have NEVER met a 14 year old that had the ability and KNOWLEDGE to take a scratch pad and turn it into a 550 page book with factual information, historically correct cross references and use so much of the biblical information and do it IN FRONT of a witness and then have the anal fortitude to stand before thousand of people in his time and tell the same story and stand on that as truth until his death by martyrdom. Oh... did I mention that he only had a 3rd grade education? Some things in life are divine and are still questionable. This is not. Its got glory written all over it. Faith and asking for confirmation is the only way to KNOW for sure of its validity.

Originally Posted by On_Fire_For_Christ

He clams that both Jesus & God visited him, and they spoke face to face...but the Bible says that no man can see Gods face and live... I see a contradiction here.

BTW: Moses did NOT speck face to face, God hid Moses in the cleft of a rock and showed him His back side.

Ok... I didn't have a good response to this but it did sound funny to me. With that description I'd have to say that you are implying that God mooned Moses on the mountain? Ok. so maybe not. It does sound suspicious since Adam saw God...lived in His presence actually, at least for awhile before they were cast out. The Bible is not the ENTIRE word of God as we believe it anyway. Its a good part of it but its not the whole banana.

Just a thought or two...

[Deeper]

wow I can't believe that you deleted my post with all the evidence proving that mormonism is not of God. I would like you to send me the deleted message please thanks

[Brother Dorsey]

Originally Posted by Deeper

wow I can't believe that you deleted my post with all the evidence proving that mormonism is not of God. I would like you to send me the deleted message please thanks

Evidence? Proof? Deleted post? You must have written an anti-Mormon post. If you read the TOS, posting anti-Mormon stuff is not allowed. All faiths are welcomed here but we do not allow attacks on anyones faith here.

[Deeper]

wait so I can't challenge your faith? But you say it's real so prove me wrong. If I am proven wrong, I would switch religions...however here's how I know you can't become a god:

Isaiah 45:5, "I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God...."

You can't become a god. this isn't a matter of semantics, this is reality. There is one heaven and there is one hell. Listen I fear for your lives. I am not messing around. the scriptures say plainly not to preach another Jesus or else they are false prophets and here you teach that Jesus was married and that you can ascend and be like the most High God. That scripture above disproves that whole doctrinal flaw.

Please, prove me wrong. I mean seriously If I am wrong, then there is a way to prove that I am wrong through the scriptures, but if you are wrong then there is a way to prove through the scriptures that your wrong...Isaiah shows your wrong in the aspect of becoming a god, Jesus Himself disproves that....Please, I beg you prove me wrong and I will convert....but if I prove you wrong, I would hope you would convert to the truth, which is absent, set apart, from that of the Book of Mormon.

[Brother Dorsey]

Originally Posted by Deeper

wait so I can't challenge your faith? But you say it's real so prove me wrong. If I am proven wrong, I would switch religions...however here's how I know you can't become a god:

Isaiah 45:5, "I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God...."

You can't become a god. this isn't a matter of semantics, this is reality. There is one heaven and there is one hell. Listen I fear for your lives. I am not messing around. the scriptures say plainly not to preach another Jesus or else they are false prophets and here you teach that Jesus was married and that you can ascend and be like the most High God. That scripture above disproves that whole doctrinal flaw.

Please, prove me wrong. I mean seriously If I am wrong, then there is a way to prove that I am wrong through the scriptures, but if you are wrong then there is a way to prove through the scriptures that your wrong...Isaiah shows your wrong in the aspect of becoming a god, Jesus Himself disproves that....Please, I beg you prove me wrong and I will convert....but if I prove you wrong, I would hope you would convert to the truth, which is absent, set apart, from that of the Book of Mormon.

Deep...you have come to the right place....always go to the source if you want to know the truth about something. I am glad you decided to ask an actual Mormon about what we believe.
I will try to answer all your concerns:
1) LDS doctrine DOES NOT teach that Jesus was married
2) LDS doctrine DOES NOT teach we will become God, for there is but one God, the Father, Our God. What Isaiah said is true...however....
3) The LDS doctrine DOES state (as well as the Bible) that we can become co-heirs with Christ, we can inherit all that the Father has just as Christ did and what does Christ have? Godhood! (through modern revelation this is explained more to us)
The Bible says it nicely....'Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.' Psalm 82:6
4) The LDS church DOES teach about the nature of Heaven and the "mansions" or degrees of glory therein. (this is modern revelation for our time) Remember if you look in the Bible after every dispensation of the Gospel to man the Lord gave further revelation.

As far as being converted to the truth....I was. I once lived in the dark just as you and had only the Bible as my witness to Christ. The Bible is wonderful scripture....it was compiled by inspiration but many simple truths were lost by the hand of man (thats why the Lords church had so many denominations....they all read the Bible the way they want to, to make it fit into their doctrine) But the Lord said NO......the church must be restored to the Earth, the truths must be restored and the children of God must be guided again (remember about the dispensations of the Gospel in the Bible?....then comes revelation! Hoo-rah). Deep, you have the truth in the Bible just as I have the truth in the Bible...but because the Bible (put together 300 years after Christ's death by order of a pagan Roman leader) has been translated down through the ages it lost those clear and simple truths, thats why it's easy for so many Christian denominations to read it so differently. So the Lord's church had to be restored! I am not looking to convert you, nor am I asking you to prove your faith....I'm just hoping you understand what the LDS believe and accept us as followers of Christ because we love our Savior, our Lord Jesus Christ and we aspire to follow Him and try as hard as we can to be like Him. Isn't that what He asked us to do?

[Deeper]

Originally Posted by Brother Dorsey

Deep...you have come to the right place....always go to the source if you want to know the truth about something. I am glad you decided to ask an actual Mormon about what we believe.
I will try to answer all your concerns:

Ok, I will reply to them:

1) LDS doctrine DOES NOT teach that Jesus was married

Your Teachers say this:

We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified (President Orson Hyde, Oct. 6, 1854, Journal of Discourses, 2:82 [Vol 2, page 82]).

Jesus Christ was married at Cana of Galilee, that Mary, Martha, and others were his wives, and that he began children. All that I have to say in reply to that charge is this--they worship a Savior that is too pure and holy to fulfil the commands of his Father. I worship one that is just pure and holy enough to "fulfil all righteousness;' no only the righteous law of baptism, but the still more righteous and important law "to multiply and replenish the earth." Startle not at this! for even the Father himself honored that law by coming down to Mary, without a natural body, and begetting a son; and if Jesus begat children, he only "did that which he had seen his Father do." (President Orson Hyde, March l8, l855; Journal of Discourses, 2:2l0)

It will be borne in mind that once on a time, there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that no less a person than Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha, and the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it. (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, 4:259)

2) LDS doctrine DOES NOT teach we will become God, for there is but one God, the Father, Our God. What Isaiah said is true...however....

Your Teachers say this:

Lewis has explained: "The command Be Ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were 'gods' and He is going to make good his words.
If we let Him-for we can prevent Him, if we choose-He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said.

3) The LDS doctrine DOES state (as well as the Bible) that we can become co-heirs with Christ, we can inherit all that the Father has just as Christ did and what does Christ have? Godhood! (through modern revelation this is explained more to us)

You've completely misinterpreted that. Co heirs mean co heirs of eternal life in heaven. we become co heirs of the heavenly realm, heaven. God is the ONLY GOD there will ever be. you can't become your own God. you are doing what Satan did when he said "I will become like the Most High" you believe the same. which is a shock.

The Bible says it nicely....'Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.' Psalm 82:6

lolz, well then God's a liar isn't He? no wrong. again you misinterpreted the scriptures just like Joseph Smith did.

6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

We have here,

I. Earthly gods abased and brought down, Psalms 82:6,7. The dignity of their character is acknowledged (Psalms 82:6): I have said, You are gods. They have been honoured with the name and title of gods. God himself called them so in the statute against treasonable words Exodus 22:28, Thou shalt not revile the gods. And, if they have this style from the fountain of honour, who can dispute it? But what is man, that he should be thus magnified? He called them gods because unto them the word of God came, so our Saviour expounds it (John 10:35); they had a commission from God, and were delegated and appointed by him to be the shields of the earth, the conservators of the public peace, and revengers to execute wrath upon those that disturb it, Romans 13:4. All of them are in this sense children of the Most High. God has put some of his honour upon them, and employs them in his providential government of the world, as David made his sons chief rulers. Or, "Because I said, You are gods, you have carried the honour further than was intended and have imagined yourselves to be the children of the Most High," as the king of Babylon (Isaiah 14:14), I will be like the Most High, and the king of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2), Thou hast set thy heart as the heart of God. It is a hard thing for men to have so much honour put upon them by the hand of God, and so much honour paid them, as ought to be by the children of men, and not to be proud of it and puffed up with it, and so to think of themselves above what is meet. But here follows a mortifying consideration: You shall die like men. This may be taken either, 1. As the punishment of bad magistrates, such as judged unjustly, and by their misrule put the foundations of the earth out of course. God will reckon with them, and will cut them off in the midst of their pomp and prosperity; they shall die like other wicked men, and fall like one of the heathen princes (and their being Israelites shall not secure them anymore than their being judges) or like one of the angels that sinned, or like one of the giants of the old world. Compare this with that which Elihu observed concerning the mighty oppressors in his time. Job 34:26, He striketh them as wicked men in the open sight of others. Let those that abuse their power know that God will take both it and their lives from them; for wherein they deal proudly he will show himself above them. Or, 2. As the period of the glory of all magistrates in this world. Let them not be puffed up with their honour nor neglect their work, but let the consideration of their mortality be both mortifying to their pride and quickening to their duty. "You are called gods, but you have no patent for immortality; you shall die like men, like common men; and like one of them, you, O princes! shall fall." Note, Kings and princes, all the judges of the earth, though they are gods to us, are men to God, and shall die like men, and all their honour shall be laid in the dust. Mors sceptra ligonibus æquat--Death mingles sceptres with spades.

4) The LDS church DOES teach about the nature of Heaven and the "mansions" or degrees of glory therein. (this is modern revelation for our time) Remember if you look in the Bible after every dispensation of the Gospel to man the Lord gave further revelation.

mm, the Bible does not say different levels at all. You added that in. Yes the NT talks of Mansions, not other levels of Heaven, but homes in Heaven...one Heaven. Go read the Geneva Bible, you'd be surprised.

As far as being converted to the truth....I was. I once lived in the dark just as you and had only the Bible as my witness to Christ. The Bible is wonderful scripture....it was compiled by inspiration but many simple truths were lost by the hand of man (thats why the Lords church had so many denominations....they all read the Bible the way they want to, to make it fit into their doctrine) But the Lord said NO......the church must be restored to the Earth, the truths must be restored and the children of God must be guided again (remember about the dispensations of the Gospel in the Bible?....then comes revelation! Hoo-rah). Deep, you have the truth in the Bible just as I have the truth in the Bible...but because the Bible (put together 300 years after Christ's death by order of a pagan Roman leader) has been translated down through the ages it lost those clear and simple truths, thats why it's easy for so many Christian denominations to read it so differently. So the Lord's church had to be restored! I am not looking to convert you, nor am I asking you to prove your faith....I'm just hoping you understand what the LDS believe and accept us as followers of Christ because we love our Savior, our Lord Jesus Christ and we aspire to follow Him and try as hard as we can to be like Him. Isn't that what He asked us to do?

Sure no I understand however, the Bible says that if you come teaching another Jesus or that if one comes preaching another Jesus which was not preached in the Word, or another gospel that was not given by them, they are false prophets...

You put up with this doctrine because it sounds good. oh you can become a god, join us. "I've prayed about it and God told me the LDS is the truth and the Book of Mormon is the Truth" well I've prayed about it to, and God told me and shown me the Book of Mormon is false, teaches a false doctrine, and teaches another Jesus...so


I hope you hear me on this, but your doctrine is false completely.

[Brother Dorsey]

And I will rebut:

Quote:
1) LDS doctrine DOES NOT teach that Jesus was married
Your Teachers say this:
We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified (President Orson Hyde, Oct. 6, 1854, Journal of Discourses, 2:82 [Vol 2, page 82]).
Again...this is NOT doctrine of the LDS church....this was an opinion by president Orson Hyde 150 years ago. Some tend to believe Jesus may have been married...we don't know for sure so it is NOT doctrine.



Quote:
2) LDS doctrine DOES NOT teach we will become God, for there is but one God, the Father, Our God. What Isaiah said is true...however....
Your Teachers say this:

Lewis has explained: "The command Be Ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were 'gods' and He is going to make good his words.
I think you are confused at what I am saying....No one living on this Earth can replace God...God the Father is our God.....However we have the opportunity to become gods...but our God, God the Father will still be our God...for eternity!

Quote:
3) The LDS doctrine DOES state (as well as the Bible) that we can become co-heirs with Christ, we can inherit all that the Father has just as Christ did and what does Christ have? Godhood! (through modern revelation this is explained more to us)
You've completely misinterpreted that. Co heirs mean co heirs of eternal life in heaven. we become co heirs of the heavenly realm, heaven. God is the ONLY GOD there will ever be. you can't become your own God. you are doing what Satan did when he said "I will become like the Most High" you believe the same. which is a shock.
No, actually you have misinterpreted it Deep, It reads that we can become co-heirs with Christ...but that's only part of the truth...remember I said the Bible lost some important truths....this was one of them and through modern revelation we have been given the truth.....we can become gods.....!!

Quote:
The Bible says it nicely....'Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.' Psalm 82:6
lolz, well then God's a liar isn't He? no wrong. again you misinterpreted the scriptures just like Joseph Smith did.

LOL...again, you don't have a modern revelation to reveal the truth to you, you have half the truth and twisted truths.....

Quote:
4) The LDS church DOES teach about the nature of Heaven and the "mansions" or degrees of glory therein. (this is modern revelation for our time) Remember if you look in the Bible after every dispensation of the Gospel to man the Lord gave further revelation.
mm, the Bible does not say different levels at all. You added that in. Yes the NT talks of Mansions, not other levels of Heaven, but homes in Heaven...one Heaven. Go read the Geneva Bible, you'd be surprised.
LOL...now you've got me laughing...you want me to read a version of a Bible that was interpreted to fit your churches doctrine? No thanks, I'd rather rely on the Lord for my truths not someone Else's ideas of truth. Again, you refuse to understand or acknowledge modern revelation from God. It's too much for you to believe that God would talk to and direct his children again. Therein lies the problem....as LDS along with 13 million others in this world we believe that Heaven is not closed to us and that the Father loves us so much he would direct us along the path of righteousness and truth again.




Quote:
As far as being converted to the truth....I was. I once lived in the dark just as you and had only the Bible as my witness to Christ. The Bible is wonderful scripture....it was compiled by inspiration but many simple truths were lost by the hand of man (thats why the Lords church had so many denominations....they all read the Bible the way they want to, to make it fit into their doctrine) But the Lord said NO......the church must be restored to the Earth, the truths must be restored and the children of God must be guided again (remember about the dispensations of the Gospel in the Bible?....then comes revelation! Hoo-rah). Deep, you have the truth in the Bible just as I have the truth in the Bible...but because the Bible (put together 300 years after Christ's death by order of a pagan Roman leader) has been translated down through the ages it lost those clear and simple truths, thats why it's easy for so many Christian denominations to read it so differently. So the Lord's church had to be restored! I am not looking to convert you, nor am I asking you to prove your faith....I'm just hoping you understand what the LDS believe and accept us as followers of Christ because we love our Savior, our Lord Jesus Christ and we aspire to follow Him and try as hard as we can to be like Him. Isn't that what He asked us to do?
Sure no I understand however, the Bible says that if you come teaching another Jesus or that if one comes preaching another Jesus which was not preached in the Word, or another gospel that was not given by them, they are false prophets....
You put up with this doctrine because it sounds good. oh you can become a god, join us. "I've prayed about it and God told me the LDS is the truth and the Book of Mormon is the Truth" well I've prayed about it to, and God told me and shown me the Book of Mormon is false, teaches a false doctrine, and teaches another Jesus...so
I hope you hear me on this, but your doctrine is false completely.

You understand nothing...because if you did you would not be here telling the LDS community we are wrong to believe God, that we should deny the Lord and that the Jesus of the Bible (KJV) is not the real Jesus. You tell us that we put up with this doctrine because it sounds good....but you know nothing of us...and you refuse to know about us. Who are you to judge the LDS church and it's members, who are you to tell us what is or isn't true doctrine of the Lords church? And judging from what you stated (underlined) I can see you have really no clue about the LDS church or it's members. And your statement about reading the Book of Mormon is extremely hard to believe...did you read the Book of Mormon completely through? Did you get on your knees and ask God with a contrite spirit and faithfully asked him if the Book of Mormon was true? Were you searching for the truth or magnifying lies taught you? I personally am done with this thread because there is no reason to continue....you have proven to me that you have a much different agenda than you originally posted.

Just for your info....you'd have better luck converting a cat than asking a faithful Saint to deny God!

Goodbye!

[Snow]

Originally Posted by Deeper

wow I can't believe that you deleted my post with all the evidence proving that mormonism is not of God. I would like you to send me the deleted message please thanks

Let me get this straight - you think you provided evidence that proved The Church of Jesus Christ is not of God?

Seriously? Is that what you believe you did? Seriously?