A lot of Scholors don't Acknowledge the "Book Of Mormon"...

[poulsenll]

Yes. One and the same. I retired from the Univ of TX about 8 yrs ago.

Larry P

[Elgama]

Originally Posted by Hemidakota

Kudos...

We can have all the claimed knowledge from our academia training and still be corrected on various subjects that pertain to our own salvation. I have been embarrassed at times with a subject and later corrected [from a higher source].

LOL sorry didn't mean to offend anyone but the more I learned at university the less I seemed to know for sure - without the gospel what I learned would have just been conjecture, maybe its because Archaelogy and Quantum Physics formed a huge part of my study but both subjects have a lack of certainty in them one is trying to understand the origins of mankind and our Earth the other the origins of the universe - I found with physics its was easier not to try and understand just do the equations. And archaeology just seems to be whoever comes up with the best story to a site or is the senior academic is the tale that is taught as fact.

I know its all more complicated than that but no way would I let people who know so little replace a God that seems to know so much.,

-Charley

[Hemidakota]

Charley, the only thing that offends me are those who are filled with arrogance. Pride is one of the main problems that many millennium brethren will openly fall. This one simple character flaw has caused way too much damage since our preexistentment.

I am an advocate for a education in this mortality. As Professor H. Nibley used to say, '…education starts in the cradle and ends in the grave.' [Paraphrase]

My earlier study in the field of Quantum Mechanics was to march to the beat of the brethren [Science fellows] until I received that greater portion of light and it shocked me. I now look at the Universe as a small place to something superior and evolution subject, being filled with truths mingled with worldly dogma.

Though, we still need the place in our minds for that academia knowledge, in order to help us resolve those untaught mysterious.

[Elgama]

oh I am far from anti education - I take my kids education very seriously, we have opted to home educate our children so I need too as I have two quite bright kids that could easily get lost but I personally believe that a ballet dancer has as much of an understanding of creation/evolution as someone who has studied one of the academic studies around these subjects they have an in depth knowledge of how they work even if they don't have a clue as to why -

I also believe education does lead to confidence and I know being reasonably educated is the source of a lot of my arrogance, I can't understand why other people can't write an essay as easily as I can etc. I also get irritated when people talk about secular education - all education in most areas increases our knowledge of God, ourselves and others around us none is truly secular even to someone who is atheist etc

Charley

[Ray A]

Michael Coe is among, if not the most acknowledged authority on Mesoamerica. Coe doesn't believe the Book of Mormon is historical, and believes Joseph Smith "made it up". However, it's worth noting what he said about the book:

He convinced a small number of people at the beginning, the witnesses -- not all of them, but he did. This man had an incredible memory. He made it up and dictated it nonstop. It's very long, the Book of Mormon. I mean, it's an incredible feat of the mind. Even if it is all made up, to do something like that is really extraordinary. And how literate was he? He knew the Bible very well, because it comes out in the language of the King James Bible, which I was raised on. But to be able to carry this through to its logical end, that's amazing. Really, it is. I mean, if it's a work of fiction, nobody has ever done anything like this before. And I think it is fiction, but he really carried it through, and my respect for him is unbounded. (emphases added)

The Mormons . Interviews . Michael Coe | PBS

In spite of his misgivings, I think this is acknowledgement by an important figure in Mesoamerican archaeology.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by NateHowe

What people acknowledge has very little to do with what is true. Entire civilizations have refused to acknowledge God, but it has not made God any less real or powerful.

Has it been in every opening dispensations of time…

I don't recall any of these brethren, including FATHER or the Savior, having any required academic degree to qualify based on our misperception of what is a scholar.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by Elgama

oh I am far from anti education - I take my kids education very seriously,

Charley

Hmm...did I miss something here?

[HomeAgain]

Originally Posted by Ray A

Michael Coe is among, if not the most acknowledged authority on Mesoamerica. Coe doesn't believe the Book of Mormon is historical, and believes Joseph Smith "made it up". However, it's worth noting what he said about the book:



The Mormons . Interviews . Michael Coe | PBS

In spite of his misgivings, I think this is acknowledgement by an important figure in Mesoamerican archaeology.

So, we don't have to take the BOM literally to gain from it. I really don't know if it's completely accurate, but it is a powerful book, on par with the Bible, which I also don't know is entirely accurate, at least from a historical standpoint.

When I was out of the church, I did some research on the Bible, and there are scholars who feel that the whole story of Moses and the captivity of the Jews by the pharoah was made up. That the Moses story was fictional.

So, how do we as Latter-day Saints approach the idea that some of our holy scriptures may not be historical? I still think they are spiritual guides, but is our faith less if we don't see it as literal history?

[Ray A]

Originally Posted by HomeAgain

So, how do we as Latter-day Saints approach the idea that some of our holy scriptures may not be historical? I still think they are spiritual guides, but is our faith less if we don't see it as literal history?

I don't believe the Book of Mormon is "literal history", and I have quite long and complex reasons for this, which are too lengthy to go into here (not to mention a lack of time right now). I believe it is inspired, and I believe God inspired it, and that what Joseph Smith said is true, that "a man will drawn nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book", with my emphasis there. Did Joseph ever say that it was a requirement to believe it to be historical? Even he had to speculate where it might have occurred, because he didn't know where it occurred. It's clear to me that he didn't understand the geography of the Book of Mormon. I prefer to leave my options open in any quest to understand everything about the Book of Mormon, but it's also clear to me that some modern interpolations occurred in this "historical" text, sometimes referred to as "translator anachronisms". Blake Ostler has written about this.

The short of it is that I feel no need to take a firm stand on historicity, any more than I feel a need to call it a "fraud". I realise that my position is "silly" to both defenders of historicity, and to the fraudsters, who feel I must firmly go one way or the other. I don't know the mind of God, but I believe the mind of God is in the Book of Mormon. I don't even know the very basics of how computers work, but somehow my emails still make it to the other end. So I get mocked by those in the Great and Spacious Building who keep telling me I'm silly and confused and can't think straight, but neither can I deny what I inwardly feel and believe. As Paul said, to them it's all "foolishness".

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by HomeAgain

So, we don't have to take the BOM literally to gain from it. I really don't know if it's completely accurate, but it is a powerful book, on par with the Bible, which I also don't know is entirely accurate, at least from a historical standpoint.

When I was out of the church, I did some research on the Bible, and there are scholars who feel that the whole story of Moses and the captivity of the Jews by the pharoah was made up. That the Moses story was fictional.

So, how do we as Latter-day Saints approach the idea that some of our holy scriptures may not be historical? I still think they are spiritual guides, but is our faith less if we don't see it as literal history?

LOL....that had me laughing. What next? The earth is a mere fabricated fairy-tale and we are in a matrix?

Moses was real person as the flight from Egypt is real. If not, ask GOD yourself to find that answer but not some foolish soul who has not a clue or allege scholar.

The ubiquitous embarrassment is coming soon for those who still believe the Mayans and the BOM have no connection.

I still remember the laughable few from our own university, claiming Job was a fabricated story. They failed to read the D&C when the Savior quoted this man to the prophet. So much for the hoopla.