"Immodest" Dance Outfits: Much Ado About Nothing?

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by Janice

I shared my thoughts too. I said that I view modesty as a question of behavior. Sure, clothing is part of modesty, but a rather small part of the big picture. Modesty has to do with not calling undo attention to yourself. So when teaching modesty to our kids, we teach them things like: don't brag, don't be prideful, listen more then you talk, say 'please' and 'thank you', keep yourself clean, and wear clothing that is clean and does not call attention to itself.

I think this is a great way to look at it. It's an attitude thing and a behavior thing, otherwise it's just "going through the motions." It has more to do with why we do it than that we do it.

Showing "too much skin", to be honest, is something we kinda overlook. At home our kids (daughter nine, daughter six, and son three) love to play in their undies, sometimes even less. When we bake cookies (which is often) we make a right proper mess, and they usually start off in undies and a t-shirt and will sometimes be buck naked by the time the process is done. When they go outside to play they wear a little more, but not much, and it is not uncommon for them to wander back into the house with clothing in hand and not on body. (NewMom was aghast at all of this!)

I agree that it's a totally different situation at home. Personally, I would say that your children are at the age where they need to be more modest, even at home. I also would be a little repulsed by the baking/cooking naked idea, just from a hygiene and sanitation standpoint.

Leotards in dance? What's the problem? Shows to many body curves? Who cares! God gave them those curves! While I am not going to teach my kids to flaunt them, I am also not going to teach them to be ashamed.

Dancing is a talent that some people develop. A pianist plays beautifully -- that is their talent. A painter creates beautiful lines and colors -- that is their talent. A dancer demonstrates the beauty of their curves, flexibility, and grace -- that is their talent.

I see that you're new here, so I just want to make sure you know I was joking in my previous post. I can be pretty sarcastic at times, and have a dry wit.

[Janice]

Wingnut... I was with you all the way on your first post. Made me laugh!

What do you mean when you say, "I agree that it's a totally different situation at home. Personally, I would say that your children are at the age where they need to be more modest, even at home."

As for, "I also would be a little repulsed by the baking/cooking naked idea, just from a hygiene and sanitation standpoint." -- ROFL! I promise they wash their hands!!

[bmy-]

Her. Plain and simple.

You seem like you're on the ball and doing a great job. Keep at it.

[pam]

Okay having grown up around dance studios and having a sister that owns a dance studio; you aren't the one off base. Most ballet leotards show a full back.

[Truegrits]

When they go outside to play they wear a little more, but not much, and it is not uncommon for them to wander back into the house with clothing in hand and not on body.

I think that a 6 and 9 year old are old enough to keep their clothes on when playing, especially outdoors. Maybe you are in a secluded area where they are not viewed, but I would have a lot of trepidation about who might be watching them. I would be worried about their safety.
(Why are they taking their clothes off?)

[Elgama]

OK I agree with her, I am not prudish we walk around home without clothes on, share baths have no lock on the bathroom, talk freely with my children about sex etc. But I took my non member friends to see the BYU ballroom dance troop and I had a very hardtime explaining away their outfits. Were the outfits a uniform>? if so then no my daughter would not be attending. Likewise if an immodest uniform swimsuit would also prevent me from taking my daughter to the class. We are Latter Day Saints and just because everyone does it does not make it modest or I could wear my tank tops or shorts in the summer outside of the house

If you are happy with them that is fine your daughter can attend but she has the right to make that decision for her daughters and you have the right to decide for yours, neither of you are wrong. I personally found a more informal class where my daughter can wear something more suitable for a 5 year old. When I went to a dance class the uniform was a white dress, very modest and suitable.

-Charley

[Fiannan]

Has anyone ever chastized the Osmonds for the outfits they have used over the years?

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by Janice

Ok, I need a reality check here.

There is a new family that just moved into the ward. There kids are close in age and gender to my own, and NewMom and I have been hitting it off. The first chink in our potential friendship came recently when we went together with our young daughters (ages 9 and 11) to investigate a dance studio she discovered. (Kudos to her! She found a studio in a month that I had not found in 12 years!) We were scouting it out to see if we wanted our girls to join.

NewMom, NewDaughter, myself, and my daughter had only been there a matter of seconds... literally, we had barely breached the doorstep, when NewMom says, "This is not going to work. Let's go."

I was confused. "Huh?" I asked.

"LOOK!" she said, nodding in the direction of a pack of girls only slightly older then ours heavily stooped in the midst of a lesson with a pleasant looking teacher. I looked. I saw... a pack of girls only slightly older then ours heavily stooped in the midst of a lesson with a pleasant looking teacher. They were all having a great time, and in the brief moment I looked, I could tell the teacher was patient, kind, and skilled at keeping the attention of squirmy children.

Then I looked at her, not bothering to hide my confusion.

"... at the OUTFITS!" she whispered out of the corner of her mouth. I looked again, and I knew, with a sinking feeling in my gut, what she meant. The sinking feeling was not, I must mention, because of the outfits, but because of her reaction to them. They were what I would call very normal dance outfits, something like a modest one piece swim suit, but with enough cut out to display most of the back. Some of the girls were wearing tutus, some were not.

I knew without her saying that she found them immodest. I also knew that I saw nothing wrong with them. And I was frustrated that she was ready to turn around and walk right back out the door because of the outfits.

So... I need to know.... who's the screwball here? Me, or her? What would you have done in my shoes?

Unfortunately, our culture deems it 'oK.' It is now up to you to make the choices on whether it is 'ok' by your own standards, for your children to wear it and be in the midst of others. Listen to the whispers of the Spirit for guidance.

[Elgama]

Originally Posted by Fiannan

Has anyone ever chastized the Osmonds for the outfits they have used over the years?

actually I have had non members say things like well Donny was on Graham Norton the other night why won't you watch it? I won't watch it because its inappropriate. I have non member friends that often comment on well such and such does it why don't you I am sure if I had been around during the height of their fame similar comments would have been made, So whilst its their choice what they do - doesn't mean I have to do something. Like my Gran's saying as I am sure we have all heard something similar would you light yourself on fire and jump into a raging river from a high bridge just because so and so did it - she was even fond of using that with teacher I was quoting lol

Being your own kind of beautiful is important and for me whilst I am making choices for my daughter involves her not wearing skimpy dance attire. I suspect there may come a time where I will have to reconsider as she is proving to be quite good. But hopefully by that time she will be able to make more decisions about it herself

-Charley

[applepansy]

Originally Posted by Janice

I shared my thoughts too. I said that I view modesty as a question of behavior. Sure, clothing is part of modesty, but a rather small part of the big picture. Modesty has to do with not calling undo attention to yourself. So when teaching modesty to our kids, we teach them things like: don't brag, don't be prideful, listen more then you talk, say 'please' and 'thank you', keep yourself clean, and wear clothing that is clean and does not call attention to itself.

Showing "too much skin", to be honest, is something we kinda overlook. At home our kids (daughter nine, daughter six, and son three) love to play in their undies, sometimes even less. When we bake cookies (which is often) we make a right proper mess, and they usually start off in undies and a t-shirt and will sometimes be buck naked by the time the process is done. When they go outside to play they wear a little more, but not much, and it is not uncommon for them to wander back into the house with clothing in hand and not on body. (NewMom was aghast at all of this!)

For school and church, of course, we dress them modestly... which means neat, clean clothing that does call attention to them be being either too cheap, too expensive, to old, too wrinkly, or yes, too skimpy. Sleeveless dresses to church? No problem. They are kids! Let them be kids!

Leotards in dance? What's the problem? Shows to many body curves? Who cares! God gave them those curves! While I am not going to teach my kids to flaunt them, I am also not going to teach them to be ashamed.

What do you all think?

Now I understand your views better I decided to respond again.

I agree that modesty has two sides, one is attitude (pretty is as pretty does) and one is physical (modest clothing). I was taught that both are important. It doesnt' matter how modest your are on the outside if you aren't modest in attitude. It doesn't matter how modest you are on the inside (please, thank you, listening, etc) if you're immodestly dressed.

I have to also say that at age 5 our tights were far from immodest. When I'm talking low back, I'm talking not lower than the bra line. . . the shoulder blades were not uncovered, just between them a bit. We always had a tutu on. . . it was fun to have fluffy layers of tule netting.

Now a story to explain my point. We had a womann from EFY (Especially For Youth) come speak to our young women and their parents about modesty, in are last ward. She was attractive. She worked out regularly. Ate right. She was not short of confidence. As she talked about modesty she focused on physical modesty. She told of an incident where she was told she would no longer be traveling or talking at EFY because of a modesty issues. She was surprised and hurt that anyone would consider her immodest. Her clothing never showed her garments. Sleeves, higher necklines, skirt lines down to the knees. She said it was a shock. She went home to pray about it. The only thing she could come up with was that her clothing was too tight and she was too proud of how her body looked. She had worked hard for it. She changed how tight her clothing was, asked to go back and was accepted.

As she was talking she said she still wasn't certain exactly what she had done that was immodest and ask the audience what there thoughts were on modesty. The first thing that popped into my mind was what I'd heard all my life - "Pretty is as Pretty does." (In my opinion her attitude was still prideful. Her attitude changed and she became humble when she chose to change her clothing) There were a lot of hands from parents (expecgted in the situation) and we were short on time so I didn't get a chance to talk about the modesty in Attitude.

Another story: When I was working at the temple two years ago I saw another example of this. I was working at the clothing desk where people rent white clothing, when they don't have their own or forget something. I wasnt' busy and two women had changed and walked past from the women's side to the stairs on the men's side. As they walked past one of the women caught my eye and my mouth fell open. I had to quickly close it and I was embarassed. The dress she had on covered her from her neck to the floor. However, it was so tight you could see that she worked out. You could see every ripple of her muscles as she walked and she had a slip on. Then there was her attitude. Obviously she was proud of how she looked. I believe she had a right to ber proud of herself. She had worked hard for that body. However, to wear a tight dress that showed her body was not appropriate, even and especially in the temple, but I wondered how she dressed outside the temple.

Just a few months ago I saw the same dress on an overweight woman, again too tight. Most definitely not modest. Again, attitude.

My point is that both physical modesty and modesty in attitude are essential and when the scriptures or the General Authorities talk about modesty they are talking about both kinds. They go hand-in-hand.

About kids, ages 6 and 9 running around in their undies. . .well, kids will model as adults what they learn is comfortable as children. My daughter is 21 now. She always dresses modestly. I have never had a problem with her on this isssue even as a teenager. From the time she was tiny, sunsuits had sleeves and she wore full swimsuits. This caused contention with my MIL. She felt "she's only a child, let her be a kid." My attitude "No, now, as a child, is when she will get used to being modest and feel uncomfortable later when she is older and is tempted to be undressed in public." It worked for my daughter. I'm not being judgemental nor am I bragging. She's rebellious in others ways at tmes. Kids!!! They always find a way to test us, at least modesty hasn't been one of her ways.

applepansy