When to give 'The Talk'

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Originally Posted by talisyn

I love stargate sg-1 lol


And I think he was joking...maybe...gosh I really don't know O.o

W00t for Stargate!!!!

And no, I was being serious. Way too sarcastic and rude, but serious. Anywho, I think we all understand each other now, so it's all good

[lost87]

Originally Posted by its_Chet

God bless you. How I wish someone could have said something like that to my wife when she was a child! I cannot describe the emotional damage I've suffered and the scars that will accompany me to my deathbed. It really sucks to know that the candy store was repeatedly and enthusiastically looted before you showed up to PAY for yours, and to feel like the shelves are bare as a result. I bought the cow, only to learn that the milk was gone, stolen by thieves who came before me. And now there is little or none left for me, though I paid for it.

wow...i thought i felt terrible about the mistakes I've made before, but this pretty much sealed the deal. I was so terrified that i'd never be worthy of someone in the church again because of what i've done but my bishop promised that wasn't the case and that the atonement could fix everything....I was very hisitant to believe that, though I desperately wanted to, and now I know why...its simply not true.

[Dravin]

Originally Posted by lost87

wow...i thought i felt terrible about the mistakes I've made before, but this pretty much sealed the deal. I was so terrified that i'd never be worthy of someone in the church again because of what i've done but my bishop promised that wasn't the case and that the atonement could fix everything....I was very hisitant to believe that, though I desperately wanted to, and now I know why...its simply not true.

It is true, some people don't accept it though. You can be clean and free of past sin, but as usual not everyone forgives as freely as the Savior does (heck, we don't forgive ourselves all the time when the Savior has done so). So basically you can be just as worthy to enter the temple and be married there in as somebody who hasn't done what you've done (whatever it may be, everyone has their own pet sins).

I know its human nature, but all you are doing by latching onto the negative is causing yourself pain, I notice you latch on to what Chet said but not onto what others have said disagreeing with his sentiment. I look at it this way, I'm not going to start questioning the doctrine I've been taught by my Bishop because of what some random guy on the internet says even if it does prey on my particular vulnerablities. I've done things I've had to repent of and at this point in my life all other things being equal I am no more worthy than if I'd not done those things, though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

[puf_the_majic_dragon]

Originally Posted by lost87

wow...i thought i felt terrible about the mistakes I've made before, but this pretty much sealed the deal. I was so terrified that i'd never be worthy of someone in the church again because of what i've done but my bishop promised that wasn't the case and that the atonement could fix everything....I was very hisitant to believe that, though I desperately wanted to, and now I know why...its simply not true.

What chet said sounds pretty bad - but if you follow the whole discussion you'll find that it was just an example of poor choice of words. And we've given him enough flack for it already.

You can feel worthy as long as you are worthy - and the atonement takes care of that. You should NOT be worried about feeling worthy to marry someone in the church, you should worry about finding someone worthy to marry you. As long as you are living worthy now, only the unworthy men would judge you for your mistakes, and you don't want them anyway.

[Avrham]

Hello the
"Talk" are you referring to birds/bee's thing well my daughter is almost 10yrs (feb) and my boys are1/3/6
we have always been open and honest with the kids from a fairly young age about the need for marriages and children and their body/identity needs for repsect and repect for others we try to tell them everything before their peers get a hold of them, about physicall repsect ie kissing/cuddling the way babies are made in a very basic way
my daugter came back from school and said that"you don't need marriage to make babies" this felt like slap to my wife"s face so we duscussed the need for marriage for FHE and its importance
Their is no easy way to talk about it other than just keep it simple
cheers

[its_Chet]

I was kind of hoping that this big pile o' poo I stepped in might go away, but I can tell I've got more 'splaining to do. Maybe my repentance is incomplete.

There's more to the story. Considerably more. But I'm not comfortable taking it any further, and it's only obvious to me now that I shouldn't have brought it up in the first place, or at least should have chosen my words more carefully. By the way, thanks Puff, and you're certainly right about that.

Let's just consider a standard, hypothetical situation, then. Person A disregards the law of chastity as a teenager, having numerous encounters in which various "firsts" take place, all of them with people who come and go. Later on, Person A meets Person B. While Person B cannot claim to be perfect, Person B has done a decent job of observing the law of chastity, and so virtually ever "first" is reserved for Person A. Person B has no one to compare Person A to, because Person A bill be Person B's first for pretty much everything. Not so in reverse. Consider what this will do for Person B's insecurities if Person B is an unusually sensitive person. Consider how it will make Person B feel if they should be made to feel that in spite of their own obedience to the law of chastity, they are made to pay the price for Person A's transgressions, and Person A doesn't care (should that be the case).

In my own situation, there are multiple, additional complications beyond this, which make it rather difficult to handle sometimes. It's fine if there's no sympathy for me in that, but I do ask that any contempt be holstered. I wouldn't wish the pain I've endured on my worst enemy (despite my vindictive nature), and it's only been through applying the atonement in my own life that I'd been able to avoid offing myself years ago over it all, frankly.

Can Person A repent? Yes. Is Person B required to forgive? Yes. IF, and I do mean IF Person A is able and willing to leave everything else behind, is Person B required to let it go and not obsess over it? Yes. IF Person A is willing to forget everyone else but Person B, is Person B justified in dwelling on Person A's past? No. If Person A changes their life, and doesn't allow anything to come between A and B, is Person B to blame if he/she can't let it go? Yes.

But assigning blame is not a smart thing for someone without Priesthood authority to do, much less an under-informed, outside party, and hopefully anyone eager to pass judgment on Person A OR Person B will remember that. There's always three sides to every story, and often, only God knows that third side.

This all goes back to my original post in this thread. All I was trying to say is that it appears that somehow some people get the impression that the law of chastity is only a "suggestion", and that every single consequence of breaking that law can be erased with repentance later on. The reality is that sometimes there are residual effects, and we should bare that in mind before we sin. Repenting might not cure AIDS, for example. My central point was that I hope we can find a way to get through to some of the tougher nuts to crack out there, and get them to understand how important it truly is to observe the law of chastity. We need to get them to realize that the choices they make today can cause others pain tomorrow, and that they need to consider the consequences of their actions. One thing marriage has taught me is that so many of the decisions my wife and I make, no matter how minor they may seem, affect the other one of us. Selfishness can cause pain.

Let's double our efforts to teach our children not to give away what they ought to lock away in a vault until their wedding day, not just for Person A's benefit, but for Person B's benefit also. There is wisdom in the law of chastity. It is not a meaningless task master to keep us from "having fun" when we are children with raging hormones. Obeying the law of chastity prevents all kind of hurt, and if we can't see that, we at least need to trust in Heavenly Father's wisdom on the matter and obey the law of chastity.

To lost87, let me ask you to consider using a different user name. How about "found09"? Please don't allow my unique and complicated circumstances to make you feel that repentance is impossible for you in your own situation. If you're married, you only need concern yourself about how your own Person B feels. If you've repented and done all you can to make sure your Person B feels like he/she and the Godhead are the most important things in your life, than you've got no reason to worry. If you're not married yet, and you've repented, all you have to do is promise yourself that when you do get married, your spouse will have that place of importance in your life, and that you will remember your sins (and those with whom they were committed) no more. If you do that, and your spouse still has feelings of insecurity, it will not be your fault, and your spouse will probably need counseling of one sort or another.

The atonement is an eternal sacrifice, capable of providing us with forgiveness and eternal life, no matter how much or how badly we've sinned (provided we repent, of course), unless it's blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I would be cheapening the atonement, and demeaning my own Savior if I intentionally suggested otherwise, which I have not. I apologize if anything I've said has been taken that way, and assure you it's not intentional. It tears me apart when I consider the depth of Christ's suffering on our behalf and the injustices done to Him. I don't mean to add to that by suggesting that it wasn't enough. It was. I would never wish to insult Him by suggesting it wasn't.