Whining 7 year old

[lw39]

I'm just not sure how to handle this anymore...

My 7 year old is obsessed with watching movies. We don't have cable, and never have, but we do have a DVD player and a TV. We get good movies for them and about a year or so ago we would let the kids watch movies on a regular basis because we figured that at least they weren't watching something bad. On a regular basis, I mean a movie almost every day.

Recently my husband and I decided to get rid of the TV because he and I were watching way too many movies. The kids were only allowed to watch one a day, but he and I were staying up until 3 or 4 in the morning watching movies. Not productive at all, and it was making us drag the next day. So, we moved the TV out of the living room and into the kids room. We also told the kids that we were lowering the one a day rule to only on weekends. Even in the summer, we have better things we can do with our day than watch movies.

Well, my 7 year old is CONSTANTLY asking to watch movies. He knows the rule. Even when I say no, he will argue with me and say "well, we could just watch one!" or something along those lines. Then he proceeds to cry and mope around and tell me how unfair it all is. So, then I don't even want to deal with it and I just end up sending him to his room. I can't even talk to him about it because he isn't listening, he's just thinking of the next thing he is going to say to try to convince me to let him watch a movie. All of this frustrates me and gives me even more of a reason to want to get rid of the TV all together. Any ideas? I just don't know how to get through to him without resorting to yelling at him or just sending him to his room.

[Prodigal_Son]

Don't take this wrong, I'm just being blunt: you haven't taught him to respect you. He needs to come to an appreciation that what you say is LAW in your home. No second guessing, no running to the other parent.

At 7 years old, that might be a hard principle to establish, but I'd strongly encourage you to try. Give him a choice. Explain that every time he asks, there's a penalty (a chore, a timeout, a longer delay until he gets a movie). And stick to that penalty. And don't forget the power of distraction.

If you HAVE to, just tell him the video player broke. I had to do that to cold-turkey my kids off that terrible mistake the world calls Xbox.

[Honor]

I know this sounds like some comment that might be made in Relief Society, and I am fully aware that as a Mother, you are not required to entertain your children EVERY minute of the day, but might I suggest brainstorming alternative activities with your child? Probably not when he's whining about the TV, but put all the ideas in a jar or something. It can then be where you point him when he is bored. Still stick to your guns, but it would at least be offering him a solution rather than a "deal with it!" Then if he doesn't choose to take advantage of your suggestion and is disrupting the shared areas of your home, the consequence might be that he goes to his room until he is ready to cohabitate in peace. I believe that setting up a situation where children will already know the consequences for their actions is best. We all (children especially) do what works for us. If whining, moping and complaining gets him anywhere, he'll do it, but before sending him to his room, I'd at least offer some kind of stimulating alternative.

My son is almost 3. Maybe I should be asking you for advice instead...

[Jenamarie]

I would just start ignoring your son's whinning. I would not respond to it what. so. ever. He's trying to draw you into negotiations, and as long as you're engaging him, he has hope that you'll eventually give in and let him have his way. If you stop talking to him and pretend like you don't hear him at all, even stepping over him while he throws a tantrum so you can throw something in the garbage can, he'd probably give up and go off in a huff and mope for a while, but eventually stop asking.

We recently did something similar in our house, although my oldest kid is only 4 (turns 5 next month). They were used to watching a lot of movies, and I recently decided to cut down our movie watching to ONLY when I really really *really* needed a break (I'm a SAHM to 3 kids, the youngest is 4 months. sometimes I NEED my kids to be quietly watching a movie) and unless it's one of "those days" the TV is "broken" (i.e. unplugged, and the kids are too young to know how to plug it back in). They usually whine for a while, then start playing with their toys or out in the backyard. When the TV first "broke" though, it was hellish. They whinned and asked me to call daddy to fix it, etc. etc. etc. You'd think they'd broken their arm and needed 911 or something. The more I tried to explain to them that I didn't want them watching so many movies any more, the more they whinned, and it wasn't until I just stopped responding to their whines that they eventually gave up. It was hard to not send them to their rooms for being bossy, but ANY reaction from me gave them hope that I might change my mind.

Also, I might threaten to move the TV out to the garage for however long it takes him to stop whinning. Whinning = longer time between movies. Remind him of that everytime he starts whinning, maybe making a mark on a piece of paper that you keep on the fridge, with each mark representing another day he's going to have to wait to get the TV back. Let him see the consequences rack up, and that you're serious about the whinning needing to stop. But otherwise, don't engage in any sort of conversation with him about the whinning. Just a "Oh, I see your whinning again, that's another day the TV is in the garage" then shut your mouth. NO negotiations or conversations about it beyond that.

[miztrniceguy]

you could unplug the tv and put in the closet

[Dravin]

You can always ask him why its unfair and point out if you aren't watching movies either than it would be unfair of him to be watching them, that depends a lot on the kids though, some while you can't exactly explain the logic of the situation to them you can frustrate them enough with being faced with something they can't really answer that they stop asking. Its kinda mean but I'm fairly effective at getting little kids to stop talking to me out of frustration, if all else fails there is, "Sucks to be you." and "And yet the answer is still no." Kids aren't the only ones who can stonewall with the same utterance over and over. I'm sure there are parenting books against this kinda stuff but it works on my nephews.

Alternatively there is the good old stay in your room until you are ready to talk or a time out whenever he asks more than once. Or I suppose you could buy a shock collar, one of the ones with a remote.

[Loudmouth_Mormon]

Originally Posted by lw39

Recently my husband and I decided to get rid of the TV because he and I were watching way too many movies. The kids were only allowed to watch one a day, but he and I were staying up until 3 or 4 in the morning watching movies. Not productive at all, and it was making us drag the next day. So, we moved the TV out of the living room and into the kids room. We also told the kids that we were lowering the one a day rule to only on weekends.

I want to make sure I understand right. You and your husband had a problem, so you decided to punish your kids by sticking a TV in their room and telling them they could no longer use it?

My wife trained me to look at why the kids are flipping out and deal with the causes, instead of finding a way to control the reactions. Do you think I might have identified the cause?

LM

[anatess]

Yep, I got a 7-year-old and a 5-year-old.

Your first challenge is that you established a habit and now realized it was not a good one so you have to change it. For a 7-year-old, this is difficult to grasp - why it was okay before and now no more... Unfortunately, we only have 1 shot at parenting, so we sometimes get into these situations that we realize later we have to undo. So, the trick is to establish "controls" very early on. Something you can fall back to as a constant, stable thing.

So, in our house, we establish house rules. Whining starts at age 0. We know this. He didn't just start whining at age 7, I'm fairly sure of it. So, my husband and I brainstormed the solution to whining and we agreed on doing it how my father has always done it. House Rule: Words and your manner of speaking are important.

So, when the kids start to whine, we point out to the house rule. I tell them, Words and your manner of speaking are important, so either talk to me properly or I am not going to listen. So, at 7-years-old, my son has learned to argue instead of whine. He would try to find reasons why I should give him what he wants. For example, the TV. He wants to watch more TV, so he would come up with reasons - like, it is educational (Bindi the Jungle Girl is educational), etc. I weigh the reasoning and counter it. Like, if it is truly educational - like there is no harm in watching Bindi the Jungle Girl for an extra 30 minutes - then I would tell him, okay. But, if I REALLY don't want him watching any more TV, I tell him my reasoning why. And, of course, if he continues to argue and I'm sick of having to respond to it, I have my all-time end-all discussion against TV (No, never, "Because I said so" - that's against our Parenting Rule - yeah, we got one of those too) - "Because too much TV turns your brain to mush." and then ignore all other arguments beyond that. I am usually a very impatient person - but I have found that I can be very patient with my kids as long as they are not being whiny. My kids has learned that when I say "Because too much TV turns your brain to mush." that means, that's the end of it. Discussion closed. Of course they didn't learn that in a day, or even a week or a month. This is something that has to be enforced over and over - constant and stable.

The good thing about that House Rule is I can use it for other things as well - like my son learned from classmates to say things like "He's so cupid!" instead of stupid. In my house, Words are important, therefore, just because you said Cupid instead of Stupid doesn't make it right. Cupid in that sentence does not make sense and is not a proper use of the word. Same as "What the!"... not a proper sentence, revise. I can use it for so many disciplinary things. And then, of course, there's the curse words which always elicits this response from my husband and I - "What, you cannot find any other word in your vocabulary that you have to go to the gutters to find a good word to use?". Yep, even my 7-year-old has learned which words are "gutter words".

So, yeah, my point is - you kinda need to train yourself and your husband first on a consistent way to handle certain things. Kids may be very different, one from the other, but there are a lot of common problems all kids have. You can establish rules for the common things (too much TV/movies/videogames/computer, whining - these are common issues) and adjust the discipline to fit the personality of the child then apply the discipline consistently - VERY consistently.

Good luck.

Edit: I need to add something. Don't set your kids up to fail. Putting a TV in their room and then telling them they are not allowed to watch TV is setting your kids up for failure. YOU need to think about things from a child's perspective and not treat them as fully-capable-of-self-control adults. I mean, if you had to take the TV out of your living room because it became a problem for you, how much more would it be a problem for a 7-year-old with the TV right there in HIS room?

[lw39]

No, I wasn't punishing my kids by sticking a TV in their room and then not allowing them to watch movies. The rule changed. We used to let them watch one movie a day, then we said they could have the TV in their room if they didn't watch it every day and it was agreed upon by our family. Otherwise, I was removing the TV altogether. So it was once in a while or nothing at all, to which my kids decided once in a while was better. While I agree that treating them like fully functioning and self controlling adults is wrong, I fail to see why having a TV in their room means they have to watch it on a daily basis? I would rather teach my children self-control and how to use thing appropriately than to remove anything and everything that may cause temptation. My 9 year old, 4 year old and 2 year old who also live in that room have no problem following the rule. It is a one child situation, so I don't think that the fact that the TV is in their room is the problem. The rule was not that they can have the TV in the room and not watch it, it was that the TV was to be used appropriately, at appropriate times for an appropriate amount of time.

I don't think I was very clear now that I am reading my post and some responses... I don't just say "no" or "because I said so" to my kids. I don't believe in that. Kids are smart, they can understand reasoning (especially at 7) so I will give them an answer to their questions. He just doesn't like the answer, so he chooses to continue arguing. He is like this with more things than just the TV, that is just my current issue with him. I have a total of 7 kids and NONE of them are like he is. The rest of them obey extremely well actually and can accept a "no" when I give it. They just understand that there is a reason they can't do it or whatever. My 7 year old however doesn't really care if there is a reason behind it. It is what he wants so why shouldn't he have it? Who cares if something bad will happen, it's what he wants.

Also, I give him other choices. Yesterday for example, I told him that we were not going to watch a movie but he could play with his toys, go outside, read a book, or color. It didn't matter what other options I gave him, he wanted to watch a movie and if he couldn't watch a movie then life as we know it just wasn't going to go on. He then proceeds to tell me how he thought it was going to be a good day, but now it is all ruined because he can't watch a movie.

I've also asked him why movies are so important to him and he says that he just enjoys them. I tried to explain to him how too much of a good thing can be bad for us (like too much candy makes us sick, etc.) but it just keeps coming back to "well I want to and I won't be happy unless I can do what I want." We've never spoiled our kids or just given them what they want because they are whining. Like I said, 6 other kids, none of them act like this. In fact, the more they whine, the more I take away. They haven't watched movies in a week because for every day that my son fights with me about the rules of the TV, I take it away another day. None of the other kids even ask to watch movies because we are always doing other things. We have a trampoline, a big backyard, pets, art supplies and a park across the street. There is no shortage of things for these kids to do. And yes, if they need ideas finding something to do, I give them ideas. I'm not telling my kids to just "deal with it" if they are bored. My 7 year old just gets it set in his mind what he wants to do and will not do anything else. Another example, he wanted to play with playdoh last week which is an activity that I need to supervise because I have younger children as well. I was bathing my youngest, so I told him we couldn't at that moment, but after I got his sister out of the bath I could pull it out. But he wanted it NOW. That is what I am talking about. For any other kid, that would have been a find response and they would have waited 5 minutes to play with playdoh. So, then we ended up not playing with playdoh because he threw such a fit about it.

It is mostly frustrating because of things like this playdoh incident. I would love to let him play and do the things he wants to do, but sometimes I can't do it in that moment. I also do not want to reward his tantrums, so I end up making him wait longer or not do the activity at all. I'm wondering if there is someone out there with a similar child who is just kind of stubborn and how did they get through to that child? I do not want to keep punishing him all the time, I don't see how that will help, but I also cannot do EVERY thing he wants to do EVERY time he wants to do it, and he just needs to accept that.

JenaMarie, I know what you mean when you say that sometimes the kids just need to sit still and watch a movie. For us, a movie is a fun activity for the family once in a while. That was my reasoning behind not just getting rid of the TV all together. I would rather teach my kids control than to just eliminate everything that has a potential to be negative. I don't feel like it has to be that extreme. It would be easier to just get rid of the TV and deal with his complaining for a few days until he realizes it is just gone. However, I want to teach him. I don't want to punish him for liking something a lot. I want to teach him to control his desires. Any thoughts on teaching him that?

[anatess]

lw39, my 7-year-old is like your 7-year-old. Stubborn. But then, that's me too. And, for a double whammy, his dad is too! That, for me, is a GOOD thing. Listen, ever since I was a little kid I've always known what I wanted and went for it full-steam ahead. I don't take NO for an answer. I see a wall, I barrel through it. This is the same for my 7-year-old as well. Highly intelligent, knows exactly what he wants and will not stop until he gets it. I find this trait admirable! But, it is also a double-edged sword. Because, without proper direction it can be very detrimental - like when they get older and decide they want to try drugs!

When I was 11 years old, I found a passion for computers. There was no stopping me then. My dad will not pay for my computer classes, so I found myself a job. At 11 years old. I've been working ever since. My dad thought computers was just a "phase" - like the video games - and did his very best to discourage me from it. But, I found that computers, for me, is a good thing, so, I did not let that stop me. I defied my dad, high-tailed it to America and I'm a computer programmer now making good money loving everyday I go to work. So, like I said, to me, it can be a GOOD thing.

BUT, like your analogy of the candy, your kid will have to know WHY it is not good. That is why I shared my example of the WHY watching movies too much is a bad thing. If your child is like mine in his reasoning ability, then eventually he will understand why it is not good for him to watch too much movies and he will choose for himself not to watch it. I also use the "alcohol" and "cigarettes" example to my child. He would say, "But it's fun and I want to". So, I would tell him, "So, if you ask me for a beer, should I just go ahead and give it to you because you want it?". My 7-year-old will not touch soda and candy. He went to the dentist office when he was very young and saw all the pictures of the bad teeth and I told him that can be caused by too much sugar - which is present in soda and candy. And everytime he asks for candy I just tell him, "No because I don't want your teeth to look like that in the dentist office". Lots of times he argues with me and I just maintain my NO answer. Yes, he says, "I am soooo depressed." or "You must hate me so much." or "You love my brother more.". Hah! Yeah, like that's gonna fly with me! Like I said, be very CONSISTENT. Decide beforehand what the rules are and stick with it. The first time you give in is one time too many. And then be patient and learn when to end the argument. This is when you can press the ignore button and zone out.

Remember, you're the parent. YOU decide what's good for them. And, every child is different so different methods work for different kids. I only have 2 kids and they're as different as night and day. Reasoning to my 5-year-old does not work, he doesn't care enough about the why's and wherefores. The corner does though - he can't stand to be in it for more than 5 seconds and would do anything to get out of it. The corner to my 7-year-old does not work because he can sit in the corner for hours and be happy doing it. So yeah, you're saying all your other kids are well-behaved except your 7-year-old means you got a pretty good discipline structure in your home, you just need to tweak it for that one kid.

What I don't understand in your story though is that you said you took the TV out of the living room to control your habit of watching movies all the time yet you don't see it as a problem being in the kid's room. I still consider this setting up your child to fail. Sure, it's not a problem for the rest of the kids, but, obviously it is a problem to one... and it is a problem to you because you couldn't have it in the living room either. It would have been better off left in the living room and let everybody, including yourself exercise that self-control you are telling us about.

Edit: I have to add one thing: Sometimes, my 7-year-old comes up with a smashing reasoning and I have to just be so amazed that I give in. These times, I feel proud of my little boy. Okay, example, last Saturday, we went to the park to watch fireworks. There were so many people that we had to park 2 miles away. We carried 2 beach chairs that you can carry like a backpack. My 7-year-old volunteered to carry one of the chairs. When we got to the park, we settled the chairs and the blanket and had a picnic. The kids sat on the blanket, my husband and I sat on the chairs. When the fireworks started, my son started to insist that I sit on the blanket while he sit on the chair. Naturally, I said NO. We went back and forth where I said NO for every reason he throws out. Then he said, "I carried that chair all the way to this park even if it was getting too heavy, so now I have THE RIGHT to sit on it!". I looked at him, told him, "You are right. You earned this chair." so he sat on it the rest of the night. I could have argued back with, "I am your mother, so your RIGHTS rest with me." but I didn't. I thought with that logic, even if I didn't agree with his saying it is his RIGHT, I figured he won the argument and he can sit in that chair.

PPS: You used the word "Whine". Whining and reasoning are 2 different things. I can be patient with reasoning. I can't with whining. My kids learned very early we don't tolerate whining. It is a House Rule as mentioned in my post above.