Children And Sacrament

[Dr T]

Hello Miztrniceguy. Nice to meet you

You said,

We know children don't need the sacrament[/b]

What does it mean to "need the sacrament"?

Thanks,

Dr. T

[ALatterDaySaint]

I agree with PrisionChap. I think its silly to watch parents snag an extra piece of bread and put it into some kids mouth who is not only not old enough but facing the opposite direction, using the pew as a table for which he is coloring in his Elmo coloring book. All the kid is learning is "when I color in this book I get bread shoved in my face". What I do like to see are the kids that are almost old enough to be baptized get so excited about it that they want to start "practicing". I dont think its going to effect their eternal progression to take the sacrement early but lets be at least logical and wait until the child asks for it before we just start force feeding them a holy emblem.

I look at it this way, Marriage is also sacred and holy, and we prepare for it by dating. We have an age minimum in our church of 16. Now, would it make sense to send out the younger than 16 year old kids out on dates or take them on dates with us so that they "can learn" how to date? How rediculous! I think it holds true to the sacrement also.

And to answer PrisionChap's question of is Sacrement like The Lord's Supper the answer is its exactley the same. We partake of it weekly instead of at say, just Easter. But unlike the Catholics we feed ourself and the priests dont feed it to us.

[shanstress70]

Then they sit there with a screaming kid for the remainder of the passing instead of taking them out into the hall.

[/b]

This is a bit off-topic, but I was always bothered by the fact that I was constantly bothering someone when I was attending LDS sacrament mtg. When my child (notably between 12 and 18 months) would start being loud, as most kids do at that age, I would take him out in the foyer. The times I didn't, I got horrible looks. However, my MIL and others would give me crap bc "He will learn that all he has to do is be loud and act up, and then he won't have to sit there. He can go out in the hall." I felt like I could never win.

IMO, if you attend a church that doesn't have a nursery, you need to expect some moises and interruptions from children... it's just their nature. And do you really think Jesus would be annoyed by children making noise? No, I'm pretty sure he's look back at them and smile.

[prisonchaplain]

When my child (notably between 12 and 18 months) would start being loud, as most kids do at that age, I would take him out in the foyer. The times I didn't, I got horrible looks. However, my MIL and others would give me crap bc "He will learn that all he has to do is be loud and act up, and then he won't have to sit there. He can go out in the hall." I felt like I could never win.[/b]

I don't know what a MIL is, but ??? 12-18 month-olds crying means they need attention from mother. Hugs, changed diaper, 'milk', etc. That is far too young for children to learn manipulation. What they are learning is that when they need help, parents are there. Such security will like prevent future game-playing.

IMO, if you attend a church that doesn't have a nursery, you need to expect some moises and interruptions from children... it's just their nature. And do you really think Jesus would be annoyed by children making noise? No, I'm pretty sure he's look back at them and smile.[/b]

IMHO belief in what you said above should be a prerequisite of salvation. (just kidding!) You are right, and get a hearty AMEN from me.

[ALatterDaySaint]

I'm sorry. I didnt mean that the children bother me when they're getting tired and fussy due to the hour long meeting. thats normal and expected. What I was talking about is when the kids are fighting over a toy, yelling at the top of their lungs or even walking the isles at random *this happens more than you may know* and the parent does nothing. Or worse when the parent decides to dicipline the child right there in sacrement! Thats what I was talking about.

<div class='quotemain'>
thank you all for your input. i will share these thoughts with my wife[/b]

I'm assuming (perhaps wrongly) that the Sacrament is similar to the Lord's Supper (Holy Communion). If so, I'm a bit surprised at all the "Go ahead, they'll learn from it," approach. My tradition treats the elements as symbolic, and we're hardly a "high church" movement. Nevertheless, the ceremony is one of very few sacrements we have. There are biblical warnings about not partaking in a casual or unworthy manner--that some have become sick or even fallen asleep (a euphemism, me thinks) for doing so. If I'm not mistaken, we generally would not encourage children who have not been baptized to participate. They can learn by watching, and approach it when they are old enough to understand and willfully join in. Just my humble opinion, though.
[/b][/quote]

PC and Mr T. perhaps this might explain our Sacrament to you. It is from the March 1995 Ensign.

What covenants do we renew when we partake of the sacrament?
John E. MacKay, “I Have a Question,” Ensign, Mar. 1995, 66
Response by John E. MacKay, Gospel Doctrine teacher in the Holladay Fourteenth Ward, Salt Lake Holladay South Stake.

According to our latter-day prophets and leaders, when you partake of the sacrament you renew whatever covenants you have made with the Lord. For example, if you have been baptized only, that is the covenant you renew. If you have received the Melchizedek Priesthood, you also renew that part of the oath and covenant related to your having received that priesthood. If you have received your endowment, you also renew the covenants associated with it. Further, if you have been sealed, you also renew that covenant. In other words, when you partake of the sacrament, you renew all the covenants you have made with the Lord.

President Joseph Fielding Smith taught that the primary reason for attending sacrament meeting is to “renew our covenants by partaking of the sacrament.” 1 Further, he taught that “each ordinance and requirement given to man for the purpose of bringing to pass his salvation and exaltation is a covenant.” 2

President Spencer W. Kimball elaborated on this theme: “Remembering covenants prevents apostasy. That is the real purpose of the sacrament, to keep us from forgetting, to help us to remember … [that which we have] covenanted at the water’s edge or at the sacrament table and in the temple.” 3

President Kimball further said: “The Savior emphasized that the tangible bread and water of the Sacrament were to remind us continually of the sacrifice he made for us and for renewal of our covenants of righteousness. … If a person, not a member of the Church, is in the congregation, we do not forbid him partaking of [the sacrament], but would properly advise that the sacrament is for the renewing of covenants. And, since he has not made the true covenant of baptism or temple covenant, he is exempt.” 4[/b]

What does it mean to "need the sacrament"? Thanks, Dr. T[/b]

This is from lds.org ~
# GS Sacrament

"For Latter-day Saints, sacrament refers to the ordinance of partaking of bread and water in remembrance of Christ’s atoning sacrifice. The broken bread represents his broken flesh; the water represents the blood that he shed to atone for our sins (1 Cor. 11: 23-25; D&C 27: 2). When worthy Church members take the sacrament, they promise to take upon them the name of Christ, to always remember him, and to keep his commandments. Through this ordinance, Church members renew their baptismal covenants."

Children under the age of 8, are not baptised. Thus they do not need to renew their baptismal covenents each Sunday.

"Little children do not need repentance or baptism, Moro. 8: 8-24. Little children are redeemed from the foundation of the world through mine Only Begotten, D&C 29: 46-47. Parents should teach children gospel principles and practices, D&C 68: 25, 27-28. Children are holy through the atonement of Christ, D&C 74: 7. Parents are commanded to bring up their children in light and truth, D&C 93: 40. Children who die before the age of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom, D&C 137: 10. "

"Baptism not for infants: It is solemn mockery before God that ye should baptize little children, Moro. 8: 4-23. Children shall be baptized when eight years old, D&C 68: 27. All children who die before the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom, D&C 137: 10. "

Lastly, the prayers offered up at each sacrament.

D & C 20: 77 and D & C 20:79 are the prayers that are given each Sunday at Sacrament.

D&C 20:
75 It is expedient that the church meet together often to partake of bread and wine in the remembrance of the Lord Jesus;

76 And the elder or priest shall administer it; and after this manner shall he administer it—he shall kneel with the church and call upon the Father in solemn prayer, saying:

77 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

78 The manner of administering the wine—he shall take the cup also, and say:

79 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine* to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

* a later revelation stated that we were to use the word water in place of wine.
All scriptural references can easily be found at lds.org, click on gospel library, click on scriptures, then click on either Old Testament, New Testament, Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, D & C., etc.

I don't know what a MIL is, but unsure.dontknow.gif ??? [/b]

Mother-In-Law

Latter-Day-Saint said: I'm sorry. I didnt mean that the children bother me when they're getting tired and fussy due to the hour long meeting. thats normal and expected. What I was talking about is when the kids are fighting over a toy, yelling at the top of their lungs or even walking the isles at random *this happens more than you may know* and the parent does nothing. Or worse when the parent decides to dicipline the child right there in sacrement! Thats what I was talking about.[/b]

Perhaps this article might help those with small children:

With help, young children can learn to be reverent. Chris Crowe, “Enjoying Sacrament Meeting with Children,” Ensign, July 1989, 40 [/b]

[prisonchaplain]

I'm sorry. I didnt mean that the children bother me when they're getting tired and fussy due to the hour long meeting. thats normal and expected. What I was talking about is when the kids are fighting over a toy, yelling at the top of their lungs or even walking the isles at random *this happens more than you may know* and the parent does nothing. Or worse when the parent decides to dicipline the child right there in sacrement! Thats what I was talking about.[/b]

Parents and parishioners + common sense + plus a frequently sanitized nursery with well-trained workers would solve most of these problems. So simple, yet these struggles have probably gone on since the infancies of Cain, Abel and Seth.

[angelbaby]

We have a 1 year old and a nearly 3 year old. We just let the 3 year old take the sacrament. It is a personal decision, though one plenty of parents make. I think it's more than just including them. In some ways you're preparing them for when they should take it. Remind them why they are having it. Why the prayers are said. Get them used to listening to and appreciating the sacrament prayers. Remind them as they grow and are taking it. Also encourage them as they take it to sit quietly during the process and think about the saviour. At 3 they are still too young really to understand, but it's a starting point.
Hope this helped.

[shanstress70]

<div class='quotemain'>
I'm sorry. I didnt mean that the children bother me when they're getting tired and fussy due to the hour long meeting. thats normal and expected. What I was talking about is when the kids are fighting over a toy, yelling at the top of their lungs or even walking the isles at random *this happens more than you may know* and the parent does nothing. Or worse when the parent decides to dicipline the child right there in sacrement! Thats what I was talking about.[/b]

Parents and parishioners + common sense + plus a frequently sanitized nursery with well-trained workers would solve most of these problems. So simple, yet these struggles have probably gone on since the infancies of Cain, Abel and Seth.
[/b][/quote]
Of course I agree here! The church I've been frequenting has a wonderfully clean and fun-filled preschool room, with awesome caretakers. The children go into the service with their parents, stay for some hymn singing, then go up to the front for 'Children's Church' which lasts about 5 mintues. After that, they are escorted into their classrooms where they are taught a simple lesson, do arts and crafts that relate to the lesson, then go outside and play if time permits.

Not only do I get to listen to the sermon in peace and quiet without worrying about my child bothering anyone... but my child actually learns something about the week's Bible lesson, as it is presented in a way that makes sense to him.

Yes PC, I think I may have finally found my church!

[ALatterDaySaint]

Luke 187:12 "And ye shall know my church by its abundant child care and hassle free sermons.

13 And if it proclaims the gospel in its fullness, having the priesthood and authority to act in the name of the Father and the Son yet it have no hassle free child care, it is surly of that evil one. Yay even the devil who wanted to take away the agency and free child care of man from the beginning.