The Power of Garments - Page 2

Prodigal_Son · #11 (**permalink**) 09-21-2009, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cougarfan

My Stake President made it abundantly clear to me before I went through the temple for the first time that garments provided no physical protection whatsoever. He said that is a myth that has been perpetuated in the church. I didn't think people still believed that. I was told that the belief started when Joseph Smith was martyred and was not wearing his garments, hence the story started from that to explain the power of the garments.

My Stake President said that garments only provide a spiritual protection. And promoted modesty in dress.

It just seems that if they really provided some kind of physical protection then they would be hard to destroy. But they are easy to burn when you need to dispose of them. And they tear real easy too.

So was my Stake President wrong? He made a big deal of it in our interview.

You can hide behind your stake pres's cloaks all you want. The fact is, If the Brother of Jared's faith was sufficient to see the finger of God, if Nephi's faith was sufficient to break ropes, etc, etc, etc... then who are YOU to declare this man a liar at worst, or naive at best?

Maybe you should work on NOT telling God what He can and cannot do.

Gwen · #12 (**permalink**) 09-21-2009, 02:30 PM

what his stake president instructed him is true. the church does not teach that the garments provide anything other than a physical reminder of our covenants and thus a spiritual protection. i'm not saying that some have not experienced a physical protection but that would be the exception and is not what is taught about them. if someone gets that kind of experience i would assume that should be sacred to them and kept in such spiritual settings. as for mine physically they are no different than any other article of clothing, in fact the kids somehow got a pink crayon in my wash and half my garments came out with pink streaks on them.... maybe i don't have enough faith? or maybe they hold a function that is spiritual in nature and are subject to the same clamaties other articles of clothing in this world must endure.

Prodigal_Son · #13 (**permalink**) 09-21-2009, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwen

what his stake president instructed him is true. the church does not teach that the garments provide anything other than a physical reminder of our covenants and thus a spiritual protection. i'm not saying that some have not experienced a physical protection but that would be the exception and is not what is taught about them. if someone gets that kind of experience i would assume that should be sacred to them and kept in such spiritual settings. as for mine physically they are no different than any other article of clothing, in fact the kids somehow got a pink crayon in my wash and half my garments came out with pink streaks on them.... maybe i don't have enough faith? or maybe they hold a function that is spiritual in nature and are subject to the same clamaties other articles of clothing in this world must endure.

I don't think anyone is arguing that they're supernatural. Rather, I (I won't speak for others) am of the opinion that to declare that no garments serve as a physical protection is to tie God's hands.

Faith has the power to do all things. Including turn a simple piece of fabric into a literal shield.

Prodigal_Son · #14 (**permalink**) 09-21-2009, 02:49 PM

Matthew Chapter 9:

20 ¶ And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:
21 For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.
22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Methinks I see a correlation.

Gwen · #15 (**permalink**) 09-21-2009, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwen

what his stake president instructed him is true. the church does not teach that the garments provide anything other than a physical reminder of our covenants and thus a spiritual protection. i'm not saying that some have not experienced a physical protection but that would be the exception and is not what is taught about them. if someone gets that kind of experience i would assume that should be sacred to them and kept in such spiritual settings. as for mine physically they are no different than any other article of clothing, in fact the kids somehow got a pink crayon in my wash and half my garments came out with pink streaks on them.... maybe i don't have enough faith? or maybe they hold a function that is spiritual in nature and are subject to the same clamaties other articles of clothing in this world must endure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal_Son

I don't think anyone is arguing that they're supernatural. Rather, I (I won't speak for others) am of the opinion that to declare that no garments serve as a physical protection is to tie God's hands.

Faith has the power to do all things. Including turn a simple piece of fabric into a literal shield.

i added some emphasis to my original statement so it wouldn't be missed that i didn't say "no garments serve as a physical protection" lol i in no way can or have tied god's hands. i was simply stating that what cougarfan was taught was not false. seemed some were being a little harsh and judgmental of him for not buying every story he hears. i'm not saying the op didn't happen, just that it's not unreasonable if someone chooses not to believe it. i for one choose not to believe every exception to the rule story i hear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal_Son

Matthew Chapter 9:

20 ¶ And, behold, a woman, which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years, came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:
21 For she said within herself, If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.
22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Methinks I see a correlation.

correlations are just that and can be created from just about anything. you are welcome to believe whatever you want. just would like ppl to be careful passing judgement on others for holding a different belief.

Prodigal_Son · #16 (**permalink**) 09-21-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gwen

...just would like ppl to be careful passing judgement on others for holding a different belief.

Which is EXACTLY the bone being picked. Someone shares a personal, faith promoting experience, only to have it poo-pooed. That's just in bad taste. It's nothing short of calling the believer a liar.

Don't agree? Fine. Keep it inside. Don't tear down faith by arguing against a witness against which there is no refutation. It becomes one man's word against another's. This is hardly the topic over which to pick a fight.

bytebear · #17 (**permalink**) 09-21-2009, 11:19 PM

If you are relying on the garment in place of faith, it will fail, but I do believe faith in Jesus Christ has given physical protection to some.

cougarfan · #18 (**permalink**) 09-22-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal_Son

Which is EXACTLY the bone being picked. Someone shares a personal, faith promoting experience, only to have it poo-pooed. That's just in bad taste. It's nothing short of calling the believer a liar.

Don't agree? Fine. Keep it inside. Don't tear down faith by arguing against a witness against which there is no refutation. It becomes one man's word against another's. This is hardly the topic over which to pick a fight.

When I read his faith promoting experience I thought he was kidding. I seriously thought it was a made up story, hence I asked if he was serious.
I guess I came across as poo-pooing it. But I'm not calling him a liar. It just is one of those stories that people rely on to strengthen their faith. I have plenty of relatives who believe that their garments somehow divinely saved them from harm, but when you objectively consider their arguments it just falls apart. I was just relating that my Stake President told me not to fall for stories like that, he poo-pooed them in my temple recommend interview and said just focus on the covenant/modesty aspects.
BTW, I know someone who was seriously hurt BECAUSE he was wearing garments. His garments got caught in the PTO of his tractor and pulled him in causing severe injuries. If he hadn't been wearing his garments, he would not have been badly mangled up. So based on that I could give a testimony that garments can cause physical harm.

Mahone · #19 (**permalink**) 09-22-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prodigal_Son

Which is EXACTLY the bone being picked. Someone shares a personal, faith promoting experience, only to have it poo-pooed. That's just in bad taste. It's nothing short of calling the believer a liar.

Don't agree? Fine. Keep it inside. Don't tear down faith by arguing against a witness against which there is no refutation. It becomes one man's word against another's. This is hardly the topic over which to pick a fight.

I disagree. This kind of story usually results in false teachings and rumours. There has already been one request to use it for talks. It is taught that the garments are a spiritual protection only and to teach anything which suggests otherwise I think would be wrong. The story does counter what is taught officially by the church. It's important to point that out.

Prodigal_Son · #20 (**permalink**) 09-22-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cougarfan

When I read his faith promoting experience I thought he was kidding. I seriously thought it was a made up story, hence I asked if he was serious.
I guess I came across as poo-pooing it. But I'm not calling him a liar...

Gotcha. My bad, then, I apologize. Didn't mean to scream at you from my Rameumpton.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahone

I disagree. This kind of story usually results in false teachings and rumours.

That's not the fault of the individual who experienced the miracle. That's the result of people playing spiritual telephone and attempting to sensationalize the event.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahone

There has already been one request to use it for talks.

And without you knowing the context of HOW it will be used, what's your concern?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahone

It is taught that the garments are a spiritual protection only and to teach anything which suggests otherwise I think would be wrong. The story does counter what is taught officially by the church. It's important to point that out.

Show me where it is taught that they're a "spiritual protection only".