This is so crazy

[YoungMormonRoyalist]

I'm not saying it's right when Mormons do it. Hence the reason I said, can "How much of a backlash would there have been..." The backlash would be justified.

[prisonchaplain]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

From the article:



Mormons went out of their way to support a bill that a lot of people strongly disagree with. The boycotts don't aim to supress political speech, the boycotts are political speech. If you take a stand against what people believe to be their civil rights you will end up getting people taking a stand against you. Why is that so difficult for people to understand? I support the LDS right to encourage people to vote for something, but I also support the right of people to peacefully express their disagreement and disgust at that decision.

I'm sorry, but no, this is hypocrisy at its worst. When Christians boycotted firms that supported pornography (seems like this was common in the 80s) we were accused of the worst sort of censorship, of bullying, intimidation, and, of course, supressing free speech. Anyone remember Larry Flynt's repeated antics...playing the victim against the alleged tyranny of the "puritanic religious right?'

Of course, now that the Left is doing so, it's their right, it's a form of free speech...it is political speech. IMHO, those on the social left get plenty of "free speech,"--especially from the media. It's those of us who are social traditionalists that seem to pay dearly for our voice to be heard.

[Maya]

I have understood that (I may be wrong) : If the samesex marriage would ahve gone through this would have happened (anyway arounbd here it did... some of these things):
1. ANY priest or a person with the papers to be able to officially marry people would HAVE TO marry anyone who come to ask him/her to do it or that person would meet with a fine or even worse... No matter what the persons values are! I think here it would be ok that the person CAN say NO!
2. There is NO PLACE where the marriage could not be made, which would force LDS church to open the doors to the Temple for these marriages, which this religion sees more like blasphemy. Here too I think the owner of the place should be able to say NO!
3. ANY adoption office would be FORCED to give children to samesex couples. Sorry as an adoptive child myself I can not stand behind this, even though I know there are many gays that are very good to kids. Here I think each adoption office has to be able to do after their leaderships wishes!
4. Kids in school have to learn about familyconsept, that is not approved by many. I think parrents should be able to teach their kids what they want. Either the parents should be able to choose what the kids would be taught or this also like teaching of religion should be taken away from schools.

Things which had not been changed:
All couples married or not, samesex or not have the same social benefits already now in California!

Things that the earthly law can not change:
Only the marriage between a man and a woman is approved by God.

I do not understand:
WHY samesex couples want to marry? And if they want to marry why dont they make their own church to do it in? Bible is VERY clear in what God thinks of samesex marriaages. Why this hate speach aso from samesex defenders? They have to see that those that follow God can not change His words His rules!

It may happen some churches like Lutherans allow the samesex Church marriages... there already are couoples married, even Priest couples... but this has lead to it, that true believers leave the state Church in BIG numbers! Actually it is interesting to see how this question tears apart the religious athmosphere and forces people to take side. How those for samesex mariages are attacking or those marching in their name are attacing those that are for Gods laws.

It is sad that gays can not see, that we love them and care for them, but marriage IS for a man and a woman. If they could see the pain we have for this great burden they are carrying! I am sorry but there are some things that just can not happen... we can not spread our hands and fly... it is against the laws of nature, no matter how much we would like to.
However if someone can not live alone... he/she should be able to feel our love thowards hinm/her. That is their decition how they want to live, but they should not by force take to themselves something we can not give to them. OR they ahve to find better referances from the Bible to show they are right!

[Starfish]

Originally Posted by MarginOfError

Also, let's keep in mind that it's only a portion of the Gay Right's constituency who is making all the noise. These feelings are not as widespread as they are sometimes presented in this forum.

True. But where is the objection from those of the Gay Right community who don't agree with the "noise"? They seem very quiet, and that quiet is too easily interpreted as agreement.

It's the same quiet that we get from feminists concerning the blatant disrespect towards women as seen in pornography. Where's the outcry?

[Debs]

i read so much about this subject and anti mormonism...i just wish ''they'' would know the facts first....by that i mean open minded historic facts...then i wish they knew what went on in the temples....because everything that is believed and practiced by the mormon's is all explained there...but its only the select that can gain that knowledge.
i haven't been to the temple so i am all too aware that my knowledge is very limited but whatever faith or choices people make I believe the Lord would want me to love them anyway and treat them kindly, even if they are mean to me.
the higher power is never wrong only us mere mortals with our natural inclination to prove wrong, put down and all other manner of negatives which we claim is 'fact'.
the sad thing is there is opposition in all things, so whatever an anti mormon can say a mormon can say the opposite...works both ways. fact.
i wish we could all just stand with dignity and respect, especially fellow mormons who should know better anyways!!!!

[cofchristcousin]

Originally Posted by Mailis

I have understood that (I may be wrong) : If the samesex marriage would ahve gone through this would have happened (anyway arounbd here it did... some of these things):
1. ANY priest or a person with the papers to be able to officially marry people would HAVE TO marry anyone who come to ask him/her to do it or that person would meet with a fine or even worse... No matter what the persons values are! I think here it would be ok that the person CAN say NO!
2. There is NO PLACE where the marriage could not be made, which would force LDS church to open the doors to the Temple for these marriages, which this religion sees more like blasphemy. Here too I think the owner of the place should be able to say NO!
3. ANY adoption office would be FORCED to give children to samesex couples. Sorry as an adoptive child myself I can not stand behind this, even though I know there are many gays that are very good to kids. Here I think each adoption office has to be able to do after their leaderships wishes!
4. Kids in school have to learn about familyconsept, that is not approved by many. I think parrents should be able to teach their kids what they want. Either the parents should be able to choose what the kids would be taught or this also like teaching of religion should be taken away from schools.

Hi, Part of the frustration of gay people is that NONE of those things are true in the United States, and we are judged on these thoughts anyway. LIke the LDS, we are defending against fears that are unfounded and even lies. The cost to gays was high in this situation, which is why some are heartbroken and very angry.

That being said, I do not believe in nor support retaliation. That is not Christ's Way. I try to follow the Sermon on the mount. Turn the other cheek, respectfully let the other party know that i see an injustice and how I understand the nature of the conflict, and together work towards authentic reconciliation. We fail at this many times, but it's worth keeping at it. imo.

[cofchristcousin]

Originally Posted by Mailis

Things that the earthly law can not change:
Only the marriage between a man and a woman is approved by God.

I do not understand:
WHY samesex couples want to marry? And if they want to marry why dont they make their own church to do it in? Bible is VERY clear in what God thinks of samesex marriaages. Why this hate speach aso from samesex defenders? They have to see that those that follow God can not change His words His rules!

<snip>

It is sad that gays can not see, that we love them and care for them, but marriage IS for a man and a woman. If they could see the pain we have for this great burden they are carrying! I am sorry but there are some things that just can not happen... we can not spread our hands and fly... it is against the laws of nature, no matter how much we would like to.
However if someone can not live alone... he/she should be able to feel our love thowards hinm/her. That is their decition how they want to live, but they should not by force take to themselves something we can not give to them. OR they ahve to find better referances from the Bible to show they are right!

Hi, Gays want to marry for exactly the same reasons straight people do. They love the person and want to spend the rest of their lives together as a family. The law has nothing to do with forcing a church to perform a marriage. It's making the laws equal at the government level, NOT the church level. I have no wish to force a church to accept gay marriage.

The reason some gays and most young people and many others do not see the love for gays is because of the unkind way people speak to them and about them, , and the untruths that are believed about them, and the unequal legal treatment that is supported by most people.

olbermann Luke 15 Prayers

In the United States constitution we do not decide things on a scriptural basis, although there may common ground. We decide things on equality, unless there is a good reason for the government to limit that equality. That is the question today. Is there are good reason based on reason showing that gay marriage is harmful to society, children, or gays themselves. Credible evidence has not shown itself so the states are beginning to decide on the basis of "equal treatment under the law".

[KristofferUmfrey]

Originally Posted by cofchristcousin

Hi, Gays want to marry for exactly the same reasons straight people do. They love the person and want to spend the rest of their lives together as a family. The law has nothing to do with forcing a church to perform a marriage. It's making the laws equal at the government level, NOT the church level. I have no wish to force a church to accept gay marriage.

The reason some gays and most young people and many others do not see the love for gays is because of the unkind way people speak to them and about them, , and the untruths that are believed about them, and the unequal legal treatment that is supported by most people.

olbermann Luke 15 Prayers

In the United States constitution we do not decide things on a scriptural basis, although there may common ground. We decide things on equality, unless there is a good reason for the government to limit that equality. That is the question today. Is there are good reason based on reason showing that gay marriage is harmful to society, children, or gays themselves. Credible evidence has not shown itself so the states are beginning to decide on the basis of "equal treatment under the law".

Seriously? Keith Olbermann the washed up bitter ex-sports commentator?

BTW, could you please answer my scenario from the "NM..." thread? It's been dangling there for two days and apparently VenkMan won't touch it. If it goes unanswered until the end of today, I will be making it a new thread.

[ADoyle90815]

I haven't mentioned this, but I actually voted No on Prop 8. The reason I did so is that I realized that gays just wanted the same rights that come with marriage, and they are often in more stable relationships than heterosexual couples are. They aren't going to force churches to marry them, as marriage is a civil matter. After all, even if you marry in a church, you have to get a license from the government first. If people are really interested in protecting marriage, they should focus on making divorce harder to get than it is now. Personally, I like what is done in some countries, where everyone has to have a civil ceremony first before going to a church. There, LDS couples don't have to wait a year to marry in the temple, so those with non-member families still get to see the wedding.

Even though I voted against Prop 8, I respect the voters' decision and have avoided areas where there have been protests. I also think that boycotts aren't always that effective, and that it's stupid to boycott an entire state when the people who contributed to the Yes on 8 campaign lived in California. It's really a minority who are protesting and boycotting Mormon businesses.

[Maya]

Interesting.. some good points here...
What excatly this gay marriage then would be? Not a religious one? In my country ANYONE can live together and be happy all their lifes without beeing married. Even their social benefits are the same as married couples if they inform they live in an "open union". Not sure about the Gays though, if their benefits are the same.
Anyway here in Scandinavia the discucition has turned to it, that some priests infrom they are gay and living in partnership with someone... even two priests together. It also goes to it that gays want to marry in Churches, which must be allowed and that priests that do not want to marry gays are kicked out of their jobs and that people who really believe in bible are resighning the lutheran church in BIG numbers ot at least move top an other congrigation.
Also I heard about the catolic adoptation agency in USA, that had to close its doors as they would not allow gays to adapt a child. Sorry but this IS a sore place for me and I would NREVER allow a gay couple to bring up a child.
Why? Because : It is ok to get more understanding and love thowards gays but as long as it is tought that beeing a gay is totally ok... it opens the doors to nongays to try... and this again IS a great sin! There are so many people who do not know what they are playing with. It is getting more and more usual that peopåle have experience of both sexes around the students in scandinavia. It is like apop thing now. And it is sick... when it is not an affliction!
Maybe it should be highlighted that gayism is not ok unless it REALLY is your affliction.
I agree with it that there should be MORE effort in helpin those that are married to keep the marriage. What if all that money had been taken to keep your marriage alive ...

I have a bit mixed feelinga about this, as everyone should be allowed their own free will. Many DO know a lot about gays already now, so to say people are ignorent is not quite right. People have been pumped up with gayism lately so much, that they know. Defence is only a reaction of what they have learned, not of not knowing enough.
It seems, that the gayactivists are nto stopping there where they are allowed to marry, but they keep on going and it may be difficut for people to realise where is the line where the gays are actually happy for what they have accomplished and where the devil is still pushing them on. I think at least we LDS know the devil IS working to destroy Gods work, but where is the line? And devil for sure is pushing the line in thsi case as this affects the wery reason man was created and can easily destroy NOT only many good people but is cabable to destroy Goods plan.
Then again it is profesized about the last days that they will be like in the days of Noah.. so WHAT do we really excpect?! My heart aces for the future generation... everything will be there for them to choose from... it sure wont be easy to choose the right!

Maybe LDS should really take some money out of charity and put it in : save the marriages, strengthen the family found and start really worldwide campaign FOR the marriages!