This is so crazy

[DigitalShadow]

Originally Posted by Mailis

Remove tax exemptstatus.... no way

The system here goes like this: we pay 10% and get back a few %. Before we got nothing back, but so did not those giving money to carity either, now we all get something back. BUT then again we have to pay taxes that are delt also to the states Church=Lutheran. So everybody paying taxes pay for Lutheran Church. Norwegean LDs has also denied to take the aid state gives to assemblies and such in ordet not to be in a situation where the state is able to blackmail us with the aidmoney.
In Finland LDS church members get nothig back and do not need to pay the "churchtaxes" that go to Lutheran church, no one gets anything back, even if they donate to charity. I dont think they get any aid either from state there.

Much of the donations go to the needy. So to screw down that pipe might stop people donating to the needy and church help systems. However 10% would be payed anyway....

My post was not meant to be taken literally, in case I didn't make it clear enough.

[bytor2112]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

Good point. Let's start by removing all SPECIAL rights that religious groups have, including their tax exempt status. After all, I am an atheist and pay thousands of dollars in taxes and don't want my money going to religious brain washing.

Yeah....let's just abolish the constitution, no need to allow the free excercise of religion. And.......since you don't pay tithing, YOUR money doesn't support religious brainwashing. But since I do pay tithing and I also pay taxes on the money that I tithe.....I expect to recieve all the brainwashing that I pay for.

[DigitalShadow]

Originally Posted by bytor2112

Yeah....let's just abolish the constitution, no need to allow the free excercise of religion. And.......since you don't pay tithing, YOUR money doesn't support religious brainwashing. But since I do pay tithing and I also pay taxes on the money that I tithe.....I expect to recieve all the brainwashing that I pay for.

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

My post was not meant to be taken literally, in case I didn't make it clear enough.

Hyperbole.

My post was meant to demonstrate the rediculousness of proposing that no group should have "SPECIAL" rights and that paying taxes means you get to specify what you don't want to see in society at all. In any case, I seem to have failed at that so just ignore my other post.

[christmasvalleyfarms]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

Good point. Let's start by removing all SPECIAL rights that religious groups have, including their tax exempt status. After all, I am an atheist and pay thousands of dollars in taxes and don't want my money going to religious brain washing.

I don't get it. How does a church's tax-exempt status take money out of your pocket? If you look at the millions of dollars churches contribute to charities around the world, it actually prevents more taxes from coming out of your pockets if, as some would now like to aver, the government took care of everyone and everything out of your ever spiraling taxes.

[christmasvalleyfarms]

I also don't get how people keep ignoring Mailis. Everyone keeps saying, if you could give us some credible evidence how SSM would be deleterious, bla bla bla - Mailis is living it and telling you what's going on there with churches and religious freedom and the state of society where they have given in to SSM, and noone seems to listen or to care, and yet they still keep crying for "evidence"...

[MarginOfError]

Originally Posted by christmasvalleyfarms

I don't get it. How does a church's tax-exempt status take money out of your pocket? If you look at the millions of dollars churches contribute to charities around the world, it actually prevents more taxes from coming out of your pockets if, as some would now like to aver, the government took care of everyone and everything out of your ever spiraling taxes.

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

My post was not meant to be taken literally, in case I didn't make it clear enough.

It's pretty apparent DS, that you didn't make it clear enough, so I posted your explanation that it wasn't meant to be taken literally for the THIRD TIME! Maybe someone will read it this time

[DigitalShadow]

Originally Posted by MarginOfError

It's pretty apparent DS, that you didn't make it clear enough, so I posted your explanation that it wasn't meant to be taken literally for the THIRD TIME! Maybe someone will read it this time

Thank you! At least someone understands my frustration.

[cofchristcousin]

Originally Posted by christmasvalleyfarms

I also don't get how people keep ignoring Mailis. Everyone keeps saying, if you could give us some credible evidence how SSM would be deleterious, bla bla bla - Mailis is living it and telling you what's going on there with churches and religious freedom and the state of society where they have given in to SSM, and noone seems to listen or to care, and yet they still keep crying for "evidence"...

Hi, Mailis is talking about freedom of speech and hate speech legal problems. If those laws are a problem then the remedy is to address those laws. They are not tied to whether gays have the right to marry or unions or nothing. They are speech laws, not marriage laws. Speech laws are important, but they are separate in our legal system. MOst likely separate in Mailis's country too.

[millionaire13]

Originally Posted by DigitalShadow

Good point. Let's start by removing all SPECIAL rights that religious groups have, including their tax exempt status. After all, I am an atheist and pay thousands of dollars in taxes and don't want my money going to religious brain washing.

What do your tax dollars go to that you consider "religious brainwashing?" I would be okay with removing tax exempt status if I also didn't have to fund Planned Parenthood, ACLU, and other such organizations that taxpayers should not be funding. I would like to see us move to a fair tax system.

I think one thing that many are forgetting is that this great nation that has allowed us more freedoms and a higher standard of living than any nation in history was founded on Judeo-Christian values. While it is not perfect, it has worked better than any other system on the planet and has made the United States the envy of the world. Why would we want to turn our back on this?

"Separation of Church and State" is not part of the Constitution and does not mean there should be no mingling of government and churches. It really is impossible to completely separate the two as our values tend to be based on religion and our laws reflect these values. If we read our American history (which unfortunately most of us don't and it is not being taught in our public schools) we know that the framers opposed a national enforced religion ... like they had in England ... not the removal of all religion and acknowledgment of God from the public forum. Madison and Jefferson probably had the most secular or "liberal" view but also acknowledged that faith was a predicate to liberty. Jefferson wrote, "that human beings have certain unalienable rights endowed by God. Rights are not conferred on us by a monarch or the state". He also wrote, "can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God?"

So the framers thought that we should acknowledge God, but not be forced into a state religion or be punished for the way we worship.

I do have some questions for you from an Atheist perspective. I mean no disrespect, but really want to know your opinion. I believe that my values are based on my faith and belief in God. If you don't believe in God, on what do you base your values? What do you value? In your life, what evidence have you seen to make you believe there is no God? Have you ever gone looking for God, just to see if you can find him? Do you think our country would be a better place if the majority did not believe in God? If so, how? Just curious.

[Maya]

In my country... the state owns the church (Lutheran) .. still. That means also that the state decides what happens in the Lutheran Church.

This is the agreement in my country. Same sex can make an agreement of beeing together. Looks like some priests bless the agreements if wished. The people in the agreement can not use the same lastname and cannot adopt children or be fosterparents.

In the country I live the samesex couples can adapt children. The marriage between same sex partners was agreed on 11.juni 2008 as 7th country ion the world.
It looks like some want to take the decition back... it was done VERY quietly and behind peoples backs! But most in the "senat" in Norway are for the law, so probably nothing will happen.
Here someone says that Obama had been against samesex marriages???
It also says that in schools in Norway it is not allowed to teach what the Bible teaches about marriage, creation... but they ahve to teach... something that is approved by those that make the books I suppose... supposedely the most peoples opinion.