LDS Church leaders restate opposition to Gay Marriage

[Hemidakota]

LINK: LDS Church leaders restate opposition to gay marriage

[kimiko]

Don't think it helped any...

Argentina Legalizes Same-Sex Marriages : NPR

[prisonchaplain]

I can imagine people saying the same to Martin Luther King, early in the Civil Rights campaign. Fortunately, he stuck to his vision. Standing for righteousness is never wasted.

IMHO, the reason most would support such marriages is that the believe the condition of homosexual desire is completely biological. If we could see that such activity is more akin to adultery, fornication, or even alcohol abuse--all combinations of biological desire and human will, then perhaps we'd see these calls for marriage recognition as more of a special interest campaign than a human rights one.

[kimiko]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

IMHO, the reason most would support such marriages is that the believe the condition of homosexual desire is completely biological. If we could see that such activity is more akin to adultery, fornication, or even alcohol abuse--all combinations of biological desire and human will, then perhaps we'd see these calls for marriage recognition as more of a special interest campaign than a human rights one.

Agreed! To me, it's all about choices.

[MisterT]

Im going to stand out here a little.

I couldn't care less what government has to say about marriage in any way. Marriage is a contract between two consenting adults (in some cultures between families, such an in arrainged marriages). Government has no moral or constitutional authority, by virtue of statute, section, or inference, to allow or prevent the willing private contract of performance. It is completely moral and legal to contract one's self into indentured servitude (such as in Military service - in which penalties up to and including death may be ajudicated for violations of the contract) and things of that nature (such as pornographic activities and prostitution which are unregulated under federal and constitutional authority).

I have no problem with two consenting adults of the same sex entering into a marriage contract. Lets remember what a marriage contract actually entails. While it may vary dramatically from contract to contract, and cultures and societies, a marriage contract details the rights and responsibilities of the contracted individuals; responsibilities such as maintenance and care being provided, obedience to lawful requirements (for women in many coutries) of intimacy, et cetera.

What authority or constitutional right is there for the government to forbid this legal activity from taking place?

I personally do not think that health care is a right for anyone. Mandating employer supported health maintenance payments (insurance is a misnomer - insurance is indemnification against a possible unforseen activity or happening. Health maintenance contract describes, legally and factually, what is being required to be provided) is an absolute abomination. But if its legall to do this for varied sex contracts of marriage, why would it not be legal and morall to require it for same sex private contracts of performance?

People whine about all these 'government' employees who have same sex benefits; that the public should have the same 'right.'

I say, "Why the &*$% are there so many employees of the government, the largest employer in the NATION (that's onlt the Federal government, including States, counties, municipalities and all of their offshoots and comissions, the number approaches almost 60% of the workforce! That's right, 4 of us work our butts off to provide the sustinance for 6 of you! How fair is that???)??? Employees of the government should be extremely few because morally and constitutionally there is few responsibilities or rights of the government! Get back to the law and foundations of this country, and you'll see affordable health maintenance; we'll be back to an economy where a physician will be able to make a living solo and could support his family quite well in isolated areas (a chicken for a house visit type life).

Anyway, my point is that the government has no moral or legal authority to prevent homosexuals from entering into other kinds of contracts; that's known as DISCRIMINATION, which is an ABOMINATION.

That is my legal and MORAL opinion.

I simply choose not to participate in a homosexual relationship; that is my right. I do not believe that homosexuality is.. right. But I do not believe that homosexuals are condemned as sinners solely because of sexual orientiation that may or may not be controlable to them. I do honesty believe that some people are born gay, and that God the Father and Jesus Christ love them as much as the rest of us. I have homosexual friends, many of them, and I'd have most of them in my corner any day of the week over many people in my ward.

I think we'll find that The Father will be far more forgiving than any of us could even possibly hope to imagine; if the Atonement applies to everyone, even to Adolph Hitler or Jerry Lewis (his 'comedy' is almost as bad as The Holocaust), and I assure you it certainly does; it applies to men who lie with men and women who lie with women.

I don't choose to practice homosexuality, and I don't think that its.. 'right,' religiously speaking; but I do not think it to be immoral legally or consitutionally speaking.

Be kind and unconditionally loving to everyone you meet; they are all fighting a terrible battle, the depths of which and the causes of which you have no ability to even begin to understand. What is easy for you to overcome is nearly impossible and devastating for another. I know this from personal experience.

[crazypotato]

Mr T,

You sound like a libertarian.

I understand what you are saying, but when the church specifically states that legalizing gay marriages and condoning homosexual unions leads to the downfall of a society, I believe that although logically it may not make sense, we should have faith in the prophet and support marriage as a sacred institution.

I agree in all you are saying about small government and the government getting their noses out of people's private business, but when the proclamation on the family comes out, and then a bunch of messages from the First Presidency warning against gay marriage, I think this is more than a political issue, but a prophetic warning.

[MisterT]

I am a Liberterian, in a very very liberal sense. The only thing I want my government to do, on the Federal level, is to protect my borders from aliens, foreign armies, and foreign business influence; which means I'd kick out most foreign businesses, cut off American businesses who've moved their manufacturing overseas, and prevent foreign interfierance in our markets.

I want an agrarian national society that doesn't have to poke its nose into everything else the rest of the world is doing.

I believe it would be best for people to abandon cities wholesale and move to small family farms; people could then EAT.

We don't need to have 2 or more automobiles per family; one is enough and sometimes too much. There's nothing wrong with a little walk or planning trips to the market.

We don't need clothes made in Bengal, Vietnam, or Bora Bora; we can make our own from domestically produced cotton and wool.

We don't need to be able to fly anywhere at any time; yeah its nice and convenient, but I'd rather have flying go back to being a luxury and rare; preserving my hearing from all the noise produced by aircraft. The only time in my life I can recall not being bothered by the sound of aircraft, anywhere I've ever been, was after 9/11 when no aircraft went anywhere and people stayed home with their families. It was very quiet.

We don't need to compete on the world futures markets. We can produce all the food we need, and more. On coast to coast trips with the kids going to visit family for holidays, We'd go to a lot of cities; but I pointed out to my daughters the real reason America is powerful. Its not because we can make anything technological. Its not because we have electric delivery to every home or indoor plumbing. Its not because we have paved roads or scyscrapers.

Its because we can feed ourselves.

That is the real power in life. And not just ourselves, we can produce surplus so great we can feed the world. Nobody in poor nations need starve; we are more than capable of producing and delivering everything needed to end famine.. Or we would if farmers were not paid to NOT farm crops, in order to keep the price of grains high and the demand even higher.

We don't need to police the world; we can feed it.

During the First World War, the Relief Society released its decades long stockpile of wheat to feed the European Continent for nearly the whole duration of the conflilct.. just from what Mormon women tucked away from surplus'.

Anyway, to the topic.

I do believe that allowing "anything goes" is destructive to a society such as ours that has so much governmental interfierance and control over what is 'right and wrong.' There is a reason that Brigham Young moved the Saints to Utah, an independant and free land at the time; and created their own nation. The new nation made laws and protected its society by creating a government that was very inobtrusive and founded on the laws of God.

Our modern national society, while originally founded on the laws of The Almighty, and "...upon the precepts of the gospel of Jesus Christ," (Patrick Henry in his Last Will and Testament), originally needed no laws, nor could anyone even fathom one, that would allow or prohibit private contracts - even up to and including usery. People were uniformly religious and voluntarily tailored their activities to their own conciences as perceived by them and dictated by their faith.

Now people just wait for Da Gubmint to tell them to do, or not do something.

Yes, this warning is Prophetic; but I do not believe in the way most people are interpreting it. I believe that the warning is to repent and voluntarily submit to the will of The Father as directed by His laws and urged to by The Living Prophet.

Gay marriage is unimportant, in my opinion, and worthy of no debate. it is the willful abdication of responsibility and governance from ourselves to the Government, which as a corrupt organization, does not seek to edify, enlighten, or improve our spirits; only to control our actions.

My 2¢

[Wingnut]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

Standing for righteousness is never wasted.

Well stated, sir!

[LocalFarms]

Originally Posted by MisterT

I am a Liberterian, in a very very liberal sense. The only thing I want my government to do, on the Federal level, is to protect my borders from aliens, foreign armies, and foreign business influence; which means I'd kick out most foreign businesses, cut off American businesses who've moved their manufacturing overseas, and prevent foreign interfierance in our markets.

I want an agrarian national society that doesn't have to poke its nose into everything else the rest of the world is doing.

I believe it would be best for people to abandon cities wholesale and move to small family farms; people could then EAT.

We don't need to have 2 or more automobiles per family; one is enough and sometimes too much. There's nothing wrong with a little walk or planning trips to the market.

We don't need clothes made in Bengal, Vietnam, or Bora Bora; we can make our own from domestically produced cotton and wool.

We don't need to be able to fly anywhere at any time; yeah its nice and convenient, but I'd rather have flying go back to being a luxury and rare; preserving my hearing from all the noise produced by aircraft. The only time in my life I can recall not being bothered by the sound of aircraft, anywhere I've ever been, was after 9/11 when no aircraft went anywhere and people stayed home with their families. It was very quiet.

We don't need to compete on the world futures markets. We can produce all the food we need, and more. On coast to coast trips with the kids going to visit family for holidays, We'd go to a lot of cities; but I pointed out to my daughters the real reason America is powerful. Its not because we can make anything technological. Its not because we have electric delivery to every home or indoor plumbing. Its not because we have paved roads or scyscrapers.

Its because we can feed ourselves.

That is the real power in life. And not just ourselves, we can produce surplus so great we can feed the world. Nobody in poor nations need starve; we are more than capable of producing and delivering everything needed to end famine.. Or we would if farmers were not paid to NOT farm crops, in order to keep the price of grains high and the demand even higher.

We don't need to police the world; we can feed it.

During the First World War, the Relief Society released its decades long stockpile of wheat to feed the European Continent for nearly the whole duration of the conflilct.. just from what Mormon women tucked away from surplus'.

Anyway, to the topic.

I do believe that allowing "anything goes" is destructive to a society such as ours that has so much governmental interfierance and control over what is 'right and wrong.' There is a reason that Brigham Young moved the Saints to Utah, an independant and free land at the time; and created their own nation. The new nation made laws and protected its society by creating a government that was very inobtrusive and founded on the laws of God.

Our modern national society, while originally founded on the laws of The Almighty, and "...upon the precepts of the gospel of Jesus Christ," (Patrick Henry in his Last Will and Testament), originally needed no laws, nor could anyone even fathom one, that would allow or prohibit private contracts - even up to and including usery. People were uniformly religious and voluntarily tailored their activities to their own conciences as perceived by them and dictated by their faith.

Now people just wait for Da Gubmint to tell them to do, or not do something.

Yes, this warning is Prophetic; but I do not believe in the way most people are interpreting it. I believe that the warning is to repent and voluntarily submit to the will of The Father as directed by His laws and urged to by The Living Prophet.

Gay marriage is unimportant, in my opinion, and worthy of no debate. it is the willful abdication of responsibility and governance from ourselves to the Government, which as a corrupt organization, does not seek to edify, enlighten, or improve our spirits; only to control our actions.

My 2¢

Awesome post. My nickname on this site is LocalFarms because I also believe a return to an agricultural society could be an answer to quite a bit of our problems. I would also add that we need to localize farming so we don't have to pay for the fuel to ship it out to us.

Back on subject though; while I agree with you on a political level, and in fact voted against a ban on gay marriage here in Arizona, I regretted not following the council of the General Authorities (at least as how I interpret it) later on after I thought about it further.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

I can imagine people saying the same to Martin Luther King, early in the Civil Rights campaign. Fortunately, he stuck to his vision. Standing for righteousness is never wasted.

IMHO, the reason most would support such marriages is that the believe the condition of homosexual desire is completely biological. If we could see that such activity is more akin to adultery, fornication, or even alcohol abuse--all combinations of biological desire and human will, then perhaps we'd see these calls for marriage recognition as more of a special interest campaign than a human rights one.

I have talked offline with a couple LDS members who are attracted to the same gender since childhood but never experience it physically and I believe there is some creditability to this but not a biological issue but more of a spiritual experience.