New Testament Questions - Devils Cast Out

[mnn727]

Originally Posted by dazed-and-confused

tam....i'm sorry...but i find it odd that you are only now reading the new testament

Not that odd, I read it cover to cover years ago but my wife never had, we are reading it this summer and are up to 1st Corinthians now. Studying parts of it - which we have done, is much different than reading cover to cover.

[dazed-and-confused]

yes..it is very different...you're right...

[tree]

I've read both, but it left me with more questions than answers until i was introduced to the book of Mormon when i was 34yrs old.praise HEAVENLY FATHER and Joseph Smith for that! now i have peace of mind and know which path to take. before when i was a pentecostal , some how i knew that there was more i needed to know and do. well that some how was the HOLY SPIRIT telling me.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by Tamrajh

I've recently begun reading the New Testament for the first time and although I'm finding it quite interesting, I'm also confused by something. There are numerous references to Christ casting out evil spirits from people and even one where the evil spirits took over a herd or gathering of swine (pigs) who then went and drowned themselves.
I have numerous questions about this.
I thought we were protected from this type of thing happening because of the enmity between Satan and us so the only way this could happen was if we invited Satan into our bodies. Have I missed something here?
If it happened so often back then, can't it still be happening now? We dismiss the thought of possessions now and think people are just "crazy" but what if it really is a possession just the same as it was when Jesus walked the earth. Shouldn't there be something done the same as Christ did when he was here to help these people in a religious sense?
Thanks in advance for clearing this up for me. Even though I'm finding the New Testament very interesting, I'm really getting hung up on this possession part because it's very different from how we view things now.

Are you referring to these references?
Luke 11 - ...not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. 5 And he said unto them, Which of you ... offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your ... to them that ask him? 14 P And he was casting out a devil, and it was dumb. And it came...

Mark 9 - ...that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved ... thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not. 19 He answereth him ... straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; ...

Mark 15 - ...the King of the Jews? 13 And they cried out again, Crucify him. 14 Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more ... put his own clothes on him, and led him out to crucify him. 21 And they compel one...

Matthew 27 - ...crucified. 23 And the governor said, Why, what evil hath he done? But they cried out the more ... away to crucify him. 32 And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name ... crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which

Among the miracles Jesus performed on this Galilean tour was the casting out of a devil from a man who was blind and dumb. He also healed the man of his blindness and his inability to speak. (Matthew 12:22.) This great miracle amazed the people of the area and convinced them of Jesus' Messiahship. When word reached Jerusalem, however, the Pharisees came from Jerusalem to explain away the miracle. "Unless this and like miracles are explained away," Elder Bruce R. McConkie wrote, "the priestcrafts of the priests will be replaced by a new order; the scribes and Pharisees must disabuse the public mind or lose their positions of power and influence over the people."

The miracle had been observed; it was an established incident. The Pharisees could not deny the miracle; therefore they had to find another explanation. They chose to attribute it to Satan. Little did they realize that this choice would draw from the Savior the great doctrine of the condemnation that comes upon those who choose to follow Satan, the one whom they were following in making such an accusation. Before presenting this doctrine, Jesus pointed out the absurdity of their accusation.

We have to allow the devils in through the door in order to possessed.

[Flyonthewall]

Originally Posted by prisonchaplain

Christians cannot be demon possessed since we are filled with the Holy spirit. However, those who are not so protected might invite such into their lives through participation in witchcraft, seances, fortune telling, ouija boards, etc.

Though I agree with this in general, "Christians" can do things to drive the Holy Spirit away. If a Christian participates in a seance, how long will the Holy Spirit stay with them?
I believe the Holy Spirit will warn them, and if they ignore the warning, the Holy Spirit will wait at the door, so to speak, and come back when they are ready to listen.

[Hemidakota]

Regarding entering the Swines, did they not ask prior before entering into the Swine? That is the key to that answer.

Can they enter into animals without permission? No...animals are here to be ACTED UPON.

A question was asked concerning animal and being resurrected. You can find this in the March 1977 Ensign on page 61-62:
---------

Where do animals fit in the eternal plan of things?
Gerald E. Jones, “I Have a Question,”

Gerald E. Jones, director, Institute of Religion, Berkeley, California “Nature helps us to see and understand God. To all His creations we owe an allegiance of service and a profound admiration.” Thus the General Superintendency of the Deseret Sunday School Union, President Joseph F. Smith, President of the Church, and Elders David O. McKay and Stephen L Richards, members of the Council of the Twelve, editorialized in the April 1918 Juvenile Instructor. Recognizing that the “love of nature is akin to the love of God” they reminded the members of the Church that “men learn more easily in sympathetic relationships of all life than they do in the seclusion of human interest.” (P. 183.) Many families recognize the importance of pets and the resultant loving and sharing among their children. Caring for pets can also develop a sense of responsibility.

Devotion of animals to families can be inspiring as well as practical. A recent news item related the bravery of a dog in saving the life of a small girl by breaking the window of a burning automobile and pulling her to safety.

A number of questions have been asked concerning the place of animals in the gospel plan:

Do animals have spirits and are they resurrected? Yes. The Prophet Joseph Smith received information concerning the eternal status of animals. Answers to questions he posed are in the Doctrine and Covenants, section 77. He also spoke about the resurrection of animals in a sermon but did not expand on the subject. (History of the Church, 5:343.)

To what degree of glory do animals go? The scriptures speak only of animals being in the celestial kingdom. Whether they go to other kingdoms is a matter of conjecture. Elder Joseph Fielding Smith on one occasion said the distribution of animals into all three degrees of glory is “very probable,” (Improvement Era, Jan. 1958, pp. 16–17.) To my knowledge, no other prophet has published an opinion on the subject.

Are animals judged and resurrected according to their obedience to laws? According to Elder Joseph Fielding Smith, animals do not have a conscience. They cannot sin and they cannot repent, for they have not the knowledge of right and wrong. (Man: His Origin and Destiny, Deseret Book Co., 1954, pp. 204–5.)

Can animals be with their owners in the hereafter? There is no revealed word on this subject. Reason would tell us that a rancher or farmer may not want all of the cattle he has owned during his life. On the other hand, emotional ties may be honored and family pets may well be restored to their owners in the resurrection. Elder Orson F. Whitney wrote that Joseph Smith expected to have his favorite horse in eternity. (Improvement Era, Aug. 1927, p. 855.)

Just what is the relationship between men and animals? Men are children of God. Animals are for the benefit of man. This does not mean, however, that man is not to have a concern for this part of his stewardship. The prophets in all ages have indicated that man will be accountable for his treatment of animals and that justice and mercy should be exercised concerning them. Alma encourages us to pray over our flocks. (Alma 34:20, 25.) There are numerous examples in Church history of animals being administered to by the anointing of oil and their resultant healing. In the best-known incident, Mary Fielding Smith’s oxen were spared to bring her pioneer family, including a future President of the Church, Joseph F. Smith, to Utah. (Preston Nibley, Presidents of the Church, Deseret Book Co., 1959, pp. 234–35.)

Though the prophets have spoken frequently about man’s responsibility to show proper treatment to animals in this world, very little detail is known about the states of animals in the eternities. Greater emphasis is rightly placed upon man’s need to live the gospel and be worthy to return to his Heavenly Father where he will then learn the answers to such questions. Quoting again from the editorial cited at the beginning of this article: “Men cannot worship the Creator and look with careless indifference upon his creations. The love of all life helps man to the enjoyment of a better life. It exalts the spiritual nature of those in need of divine favor.” (Juvenile Instructor, Apr. 1918, p. 182.)

[Hemidakota]

Curious question here: a separate post for an answer to anyone - Have any one here seen Lucifer, a devil, or any of those minions, face-to-face?

[PastorBob]

There are different types of possession.

The first, and most common, is a "mind within the mind" created through neuro-linguistic programming/hypnosis, which fights with the rest of the mind, causing erratic behavior, and usually solves itself after a while, with or without an exorcism ceremony. Often, the person is first led to feel good through embedded commands in ordinary looking speech like "You will 'feel right' if you..." "When you... you 'feel at peace'" or "When I pray I 'feel the connection'" which makes the unconscious then create these feelings, then layers of behavior modification are put in through a variety of other commands, arm movements and the like. A common means is the person being told that some part of themself, is the devil, and must be resisted, combined with more NLP until they go haywire.

The second, much like the first, is the self-suppression of a part of oneself, which will then develop strength until it overwhelms the personality, and the person thinks it is the devil, and will act accordingly, until no longer fighting with oneself.

The third, actual demonic possession, can only occur from calling the devil, or someone else calling it (not with a simple prayer) and a second person invites it in through fear, or it is being directed by the former. Once in a very rare while, a person who is high or drunk enough to displace themselves from their body can be possession, but must be in the proper setting and place.

Without a medium to manifest through, such as a person, smoke, or blood, it cannot actually appear on the physical plane, but if one's spiritual sight is highly developed they can be seen.

But the key ingredient, almost invariably, is someone's intention for possession, and following actions, to cause it.

Back in Jesus' time it was common for people to experiment with ceremonial magic, and this is what caused most of the demonic obsession. Acts 19:19 Many of them also which used curious (occult in the original Greek) arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

Many of these are still around and still causing it, though it is rare, such as the "clavicula solomonis" a rabbi found in Jerusalem, today translated into English, which has a talisman in it, which is specifically designed to cause obsession by demons on the person it is pronounced against.

Moses grew up in the Egyptian royal household and was familiar with their "curious arts" which no royalty could reign without being knowledgeable in, according to modern historic findings, and there are numerous admonitions against it in Exodus.

If we look at the bible passages in Matthew 8:28-34 on legion, we read "coming from the tombs" which may indicate either practice of some some sort of ritual there, and/or drinking.