D&C 76:89 and the Three Kingdoms

[rameumptom]

The Church Patriarch emeritus, Eldred G. Smith made this statement, but I haven't been able to find it anywhere outside his statement.

The Lord has told us of three degrees of glory. There are three “heavens,” as it is often referred to. We call them the telestial, terrestrial, and the celestial. I cannot for a minute conceive the telestial being hell, either, because it is considered a heaven, a glory. The Prophet Joseph Smith told us that if we could get one little glimpse into the telestial glory even, the glory is so great that we would be tempted to commit suicide to get there (Eldred G. Smith, BYU Speeches, March 10, 1964, p. 4).

I believe the members tend to make a misquote of this, as it suggests we would be tempted, not that we would necessarily do it.

[ninjormon]

As far as the telestial kingdom and suicide, i'll explain, the telestial kingdom is reserved for all those that did not try to live righteously but still accept Christ and baptism whether through immersion or proxy, baptism for the dead will go on throughout the millenium. The telestial kingdom is reserved for killers, liars, adulterors, and such. So therefore even a person worthy of entering the celestial kingdom by not enduring to the end and rather taking the easy way out they fall. At work a man said it looks like its time to get ready to die for what you believe in, my reply was that's the easy way out, living for what you believe is hard. He was stunned but it is true. The purpose of God is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man, this should be our goal as well, Peter said but I dont remember the scripture, since I have been saved I must now work to save others. (paraphrased) It is our work to try to help these people to recieve eternal life not just to live forever.

The only thing that I have a problem understanding being a convert is I was always taught that damnation was being seperated from God. People that go to the telestial kingdom are dammed in progress, so damned is damned right? Heavenly Father will not go to the telestial kingdom so there is still seperation, can someone explain this to me?

As far as the Priesthood Blessings you may not be a great orator at first but that is not the reason for the blessings. Through time in service you will get to know and understand how to feel/hear the Spirit more strongly and know the persons needs and purpose beyond what they may understand at the time. Think about the person, type of blessing, and situation before the blessing but dont think so hard you start to plan the blessing out. Take your time but dont try to use a lot of words just because it sounds good. The rest will fall into place. Eventually you will develop more gifts, the best way is to practice by doing. Just like you are not expected to know everything in order to join the Church your faith is enough and you will grow.

[blinda]

That glory granted the inhabitants of the lowest
kingdom of glory is called telestial glory. In the
infinite mercy of a beneficent Father it surpasses all
mortal understanding, and yet it is in no way
comparable to the glory of the terrestrial and
celestial worlds. --Bruce R. McKonkie

I think this gives a pretty good answer. Yes, compared to our mortal and fallen state, the telestial kingdom will be incredible. After all, the earth as we know it is heavily under the power of Satan. The telestial kingdom will certainly have imperfect people, but there will be no adversary. I can't imagine how glorious that would be.

But still, the telestial kingdom is only the beginning. We are aiming not just for the absence of the adversary, but the presence of our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. That is what the Celestial Kingdom offers. That is eternal life. So, even if the telestial kingdom is better than this life, of course we shouldn't just aim for better--we should aim for the best.

[tomk]

God will have a "connection" to the Terr and Tel Kingdoms through the ministration of His Beloved Son and the Holy Ghost.

Heavenly Father speaks
Christ speaks the same words
The Holy Ghost "speaks" the same words (the words of the Father and the Son)

They are united in purpose and love. In all things except being one substance.

So, when the Savior ministers to the Terrestrial Kingdom, it will be as if He were speaking the words of the Father.

Same with the Holy Ghost ministering to the Telestial Kingdom.

=============


If you run this backwards -- what is the mission of the Holy Ghost? To lead us to Christ.

What is the mission of Christ? To reunite us with Father.


This seems to suggest that there can be progression between Kingdoms.


I know that the Church does not teach this doctrine. Maybe because it's not true, or maybe because they don't want us settling for Telestial glory.


109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;

110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;

111 For they shall be judged according to their works, and every man shall receive according to his own works, his own dominion, in the mansions which are prepared;

112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.

[kodabear]

The important aspect of the celestial kingdon and exaltation is the have enternal increase, which can only occur when a man and a woman meet all the criteria for entering exaltation in the celestial kindgom. Any thing else doe not allow man and woman to have eternal increase. This as I understand it.

[kodabear]

I am a convert to the church of 45 years. I thought a one time that I knew pretty much all there was to know about the church. At this point in my life (68y.o.) I have just scratched the surface. You learn through reading the scriptures, study the words of the prophets, and mostley from pondering and prayer, with answers coming through the Holy Ghost.

That is why were are constantly instructed to read and ponder the scriptures. I once heard it said, that through the Holy Ghost you can learn more in 5 minutes, than in all the books in the world. Satament attributed to Joseph Smith. It come's in the form of a testimoney by spirit to spirit, which is the true form of heavenly language.

[rameumptom]

Eternal increase is just one portion of being exalted. It is to have "all that the Father hath" (D&C 84), which is not available to those who accept less. It is to enter entirely and fully into a loving relationship with the Godhead. It is to receive all of the rights, powers, and privileges that God has. It is to receive a full inheritance, powers, dominions, kingdoms, and principalities. It is to receive all knowledge and all truth and light. It is to receive the fullness of the priesthood and its keys and authorities and powers. It is to be made "kings and priests unto God and his Father" by Jesus Christ (Rev 1:5-6), and to receive all the blessings in conjunction with our eternal spouse, as these things are only conferred upon those who have received the Patriarchal Priesthood in the temple sealing.

[Webster]

Originally Posted by BenRaines

There is a quote somewhere that says. If we could see the telestial kingdom we would kill ourselves to go there because it is so much better there than it is here.

No offense, but I believe that 'quote' is a Mormon myth and not reliable. If anyone can prove me wrong, I'd love to see it. Otherwise, I propose that we stop perpetuating that idea. I had a friend who has tried to locate the quote, and I've tried for a while too, and we can't find the original.

[Webster]

More information on the idea of killing yourself to get to the telestial kingdom: Life On Gold Plates: Committing Suicide to get to the Telestial Kingdom. This site takes Patriarch emeritus Eldred G. Smith's quote (mentioned above in comment #11) and works backward from there. Very interesting.

[JohnnyRudick]

Originally Posted by BenRaines

There is a quote somewhere that says. If we could see the telestial kingdom we would kill ourselves to go there because it is so much better there than it is here.


Ben Raines

I see this happen all the time.
With things people say.
Things I say. (and it gets me in trouble alot tooooo;-(
And things in Scripture.

I have seen this quote years ago and when I saw it I just assumed, with some thought, a little prayer and some serious Scripture reading that the inference is. . .

"If you were to see [the glories of] the telestial kingdom, [and if you thought you could get there that way, you] would kill ourselves to go there. . ."

Sometimes we assume that the hearer understands the unsaid thoughts behind that which is said.

Just another thought;-)

Bro. Rudick