Book Of Mormon Stumbling Block

Originally posted by Please@Nov 15 2005, 11:20 AM

I would still would like to know when anything anyone has answered for you in the past has done for you.... spiritually speaking...

If you are not really investigating the church... and praying about it and fasting and living a righteous life.... what the heck good is telling you anything about the word Adieu?

You just want to haggle. I for one am tired of it.

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Amen, sister!

[Ray]

Originally posted by Jason@Nov 15 2005, 11:08 AM
Im still waiting for someone to adaquetly explain how the Nephites learn to say "Adieu", when even the French language didn't exist at the time?*

And don't bother with Jeff Lindsay's lame argument that the word was the best match for the "translation".* English words were used for the whole BoM, and "Good bye" would have been a suitable word.* Or, if Smith wanted to be literal, why not say "God be with you"?* *

Lindsay's objections to the use of French words in the Bible don't mean squat.* We all know that those weren't god-inspired translations using magic spec's or a nifty rock in a hat.*

If anyone's got a better answer, I'd love to hear it.

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To put it simply, "adieu" was the word Joseph Smith chose to use to represent what Nephi? (was it?) said or meant when he said what he said.

For those who don't know, a prophet usually speaks with his own words while expressing the thoughts he is given from the Lord, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Or in other words, our Lord and the Holy Ghost don't always give prophets the exact words to use when giving inspiration and revelation, and instead they usually give thoughts and impressions which are interpreted into words by the prophet who receives them.

And for those who want some evidence of this, study the words of the prophets and you should be able to notice that every prophet has their own way of saying or writing certain things, even though they are all basically saying the same things, and even though some prophets give a little more detail or express their thoughts in words that are easier for others to understand.

And btw, Joseph Smith was fairly familiar with the Bible both before and after he was ordained as an apostle of our Lord, and sometimes he chose to use some of those words in the Bible to translate what the Nephites had written in their scriptures. For instance, the Nephites didn't speak in the King James vernacular either.

Anyway, you simply need to understand the process whereby we receive revelation, while trying to understand what someone says to you when they explain how they believe it was done.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Ari+Nov 15 2005, 11:39 AM-->

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Amen, sister!

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Heh, try not to lose patience with him, sisters. Jason simply doesn't know any better.

[paul6150]

Originally posted by inactivetx@Nov 14 2005, 06:14 PM
Hi! Hope someone can help.
I am an inactive member and am trying to gain a testimony. So, I have taken up Hinkley's challenge to read the BoM and everything is going smoothly until I hit a speed bump and I find whatever small testimony I was gaining being whisked away in an instant - leaving a bad taste in my month.* Here is an example:
Alma 38:13-14:* "Do not pray as the Zoramites do, for ye have seen that they pray to heard of men, and to be praised for thier wisdom. Do not say: O God, I thank thee that we are better than our brethren..."
Hello?!* Didn't Jesus say this exact thing to the Pharasees 100 year years later??? in Luke 18:11 (btw the footnotes direct you to Luke 18:13)?* So, was Jesus quoting Alma? or was Alma quoted Jesus 100 years in the past?*
It's these little moments of deja vous in the BoM that make me go hmmmm. And don't get me started on the book of Ether.* Last time I read that book, I put away the Book of Mormon for months! So am I nervous about reading it again.
Is there a good reason why the BoM relies so heavily in its narrative on the Old/New Testament stories?
I truly want a testimony of the BoM. I have prayed, and am obviously reading and occassional get the warm feeling of the spirit like w/ Alma 32 or other doctrinal passages, but then it is torn to shreads over things like this.
Can anyone help me?
TIA - InactiveTx

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INACTIVETX

I have posted some other BOM passages that also have a lot of New Testament scriptures or other errors such as in the quoting of Chapters 3 and 4 of Malachi but not Chapters 1 and 2.

Jesus invited all that are heavy ladened and burdened and He will give them rest for His yoke is easy and His burden is light. The Gospel message of salvation as presented in the Bible is really clear and to the point. All Jesus asks of us is that we simply believe. John 3:18 states "Whoever believes in Him is not condemned but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." In Acts 16:31 Paul answered the jailer "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved you and your household." In Ephesians 2:8-10 states it this way " For it is by grace you have been saved through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is a GIFT of God - not by WORKS so that NO ONE can boast. For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works which God prepared in advance for us to do."

You see the salvation message presented in the Bible has nothing to do with what we can do (our works) but in what He has already done. All He asks of us is to believe in the Lord Jesus and what Jesus has done in dying for our sins. THIS IS WHAT THE GOSPEL IS ALL ABOUT.

You are questioning the authenticity of the BOM and rightly so for throughout its pages you find a strong emphasis on our works as being the way to heaven. THIS DOES NOT AGREE WITH THE BIBLE'S MESSAGE. I strongly encourage you to not look for a witness from the BOM but rather believe in the Lord Jesus and that He died for you personally. His blood covered your sins and the sins of the whole world. All He asks is that we take up this free gift and believe.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Ray+Nov 15 2005, 12:57 PM-->

Heh, try not to lose patience with him, sisters. Jason simply doesn't know any better.

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Im all for bantering....to a point. Look at me an Ray. We used to get on each other's nerves, and now we're generally cordial or we just ignore each other.

Truly, the Moon Goddess works in mysterious ways.

[Ray]

Originally posted by Jason+Nov 15 2005, 12:26 PM-->

Im all for bantering....to a point. Look at me an Ray. We used to get on each other's nerves, and now we're generally cordial or we just ignore each other.

Truly, the Moon Goddess works in mysterious ways.

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Heh, some people just let their worst emotions get the better of them.

And I see absolutely nothing wrong with extending love and patience to everybody.

[Jason]

Originally posted by Ray@Nov 15 2005, 01:33 PM
Heh, some people just let their worst emotions get the better of them.

And I see absolutely nothing wrong with extending love and patience to everybody.*

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I love you Ray. You're my hero.

[inactivetx]

Originally posted by Ray+Nov 15 2005, 12:54 PM-->

To put it simply, "adieu" was the word Joseph Smith chose to use to represent what Nephi? (was it?) said or meant when he said what he said.

For those who don't know, a prophet usually speaks with his own words while expressing the thoughts he is given from the Lord, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

Or in other words, our Lord and the Holy Ghost don't always give prophets the exact words to use when giving inspiration and revelation, and instead they usually give thoughts and impressions which are interpreted into words by the prophet who receives them.

And for those who want some evidence of this, study the words of the prophets and you should be able to notice that every prophet has their own way of saying or writing certain things, even though they are all basically saying the same things, and even though some prophets give a little more detail or express their thoughts in words that are easier for others to understand.

And btw, Joseph Smith was fairly familiar with the Bible both before and after he was ordained as an apostle of our Lord, and sometimes he chose to use some of those words in the Bible to translate what the Nephites had written in their scriptures. For instance, the Nephites didn't speak in the King James vernacular either.

Anyway, you simply need to understand the process whereby we receive revelation, while trying to understand what someone says to you when they explain how they believe it was done.

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I agree with your analysis, Ray which is why I don't get bent out of shape with horses, cement or adieu. Joseph could have simply used the word(s) from HIS frame of reference to express what the Spirit was telling him.
But this is inadequate to describe the use of old/new testament scenarios appearing in the BoM. In my example, it is simply more than just 'Jesus teaching timeless truths'. It is an almost word for word quote of Christ talking to the Pharisees with just the names changed to charge the guilty - 100 years before Christ uttered the complaint. In Ether a glaring example:
Ether 8: 10
10 And now, therefore, let my father send for Akish, the son of Kimnor; and behold, I am fair, and I will dance before him, and I will please him, that he will desire me to wife; wherefore if he shall desire of thee that ye shall give unto him me to wife, then shall ye say: I will give her if ye will bring unto me the ahead• of my father, the king.
Compare with Mark 6 and the beheading of John the Baptist by a tempting dancing daughter:
How interesting that an almost identical scenario occurs twice in scripture?

Don't get me wrong - I WANT to believe. I am one of the strange people who love Mormonism but can't quite make myself believe it lock, stock and barrel. But I am trying. Situations like these don't make my job any easier.

InActiveTx

[Ray]

Originally posted by Jason+Nov 15 2005, 12:34 PM-->

I love you Ray. You're my hero.

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Ahhh.

You're not trying to give me a fat head now, are you?

I've simply come to the point where I better understand where you are coming from, and where you are going, so I'm now trying to do whatever I can to make your stay here with us as pleasant as possible.

Originally posted by Jason@Nov 15 2005, 12:26 PM

Im all for bantering....to a point.* Look at me an Ray. We used to get on each other's nerves, and now we're generally cordial or we just ignore each other.*

Truly, the Moon Goddess works in mysterious ways.

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