Mormon Chapter 9

[Prend1]

Okay I am really struggling to have faith here. I guess you could say that I used to have the faith of a child....all believing, all knowing, all trusting. Now I feel that faith been shaken as I realize that our leaders do make mistakes, are not perfect, give bad advise, etc.

I have also been pondering the mysteries of the Lord and why he would allow pologamy, not give blacks the priesthood, etc and if all this "revelation" was just shortcomings on man's part. But at the same time it is said that the Lord will not allow the church to be led astray. So I don't know.

Anyway, I cam across this yesterday (yes, I'm behind!) and it just jumped out at me....It's Mormon Chapter 9 verse 9 and 10 in paticualar but the whole cahpter really.

To save time I won't type it all here, but what do you all think of thi sin relation to what I said above?

[LionHeart]

The question I have is this: Were you under the impression that God was a changing God?

[Prend1]

yes i am...too much has changed in the church...and it's not like when the law of moses was fullfilled...no rhyme or reason to it

[LionHeart]

The truth is God is from everlasting to everlasting; unchangeable, without beginning of days or end of years. How could we place our faith in a God who would have a different standard for us to live up to every day? We would do our best to live up to the standards we were given only to find that we didn't make the grade because the standard changed.
Although times may change, the requirements for salvation and exaltation will never change. (Brigham Young)

[Prend1]

So that's what it means...salvation requirements will never change...I never saw it that way before......

Still doesn't explain the rules chaging on other things though

[Aristotle]

Originally posted by Prend1@Jan 3 2006, 01:18 AM
So that's what it means...salvation requirements will never change...I never saw it that way before......

Still doesn't explain the rules chaging on other things though

[snapback]88039[/snapback]

Have faith, sister! A living prophet of God guides the Church today, and he will never lead us astray. Yes, people make mistakes...to err is human. But keep your eye on the prophet. Many things cannot be explained on this side of the veil.

Okay I am really struggling to have faith here. I guess you could say that I used to have the faith of a child....all believing, all knowing, all trusting. Now I feel that faith been shaken as I realize that our leaders do make mistakes, are not perfect, give bad advise, etc.

I have also been pondering the mysteries of the Lord and why he would allow pologamy, not give blacks the priesthood, etc and if all this "revelation" was just shortcomings on man's part. But at the same time it is said that the Lord will not allow the church to be led astray. So I don't know.

Anyway, I cam across this yesterday (yes, I'm behind!) and it just jumped out at me....It's Mormon Chapter 9 verse 9 and 10 in paticualar but the whole cahpter really.

To save time I won't type it all here, but what do you all think of thi sin relation to what I said above?
[/b]

the pologamy does really get me 2 because the Book of Mormon says Man should have one wife..But yet the doctrine and covenants reveal a whole different story.. I think there was alot of hardheaded peeps in the early church.. the church was formed in america before the civil war 2 and that was before slavery was abolished so at the time the church was formed most blacks were prob slaves.. and that was considered property so i doubt unless a slave owner baptized into lds not many blacks were even baptized more or less offered the priesthood..I've heard rumors from Black people were neutral in the war in heaven thats why they are black to Cain killed abel and blackness was the curse god Gave him the mark he placed on cain.. in the book of mormon it says God Cursed Laman and lemeul's descendants but obviously they werent african so who knows what the truth is.. But i know this much the pologamy that Joseph smith talked about wasnt just marry any wife u wanted or take as many wifes as u wanted.. In fact if it was only ok if your First wife allowed it Like in the case of Isaac was it who Rebekah Gave her maid cause she couldnt have kids and the same with Jacob and leah and rachel its been awhile since i read the old testament but leah and rachel gave the handmaids to Jacob..so even if pologamist existed today your husband isnt gettin no more wives unless u give em to him he couldnt just take all he pleased or nothing.. I dont know

[rosie321]

Okay I am really struggling to have faith here. I guess you could say that I used to have the faith of a child....all believing, all knowing, all trusting. Now I feel that faith been shaken as I realize that our leaders do make mistakes, are not perfect, give bad advise, etc.[/b]

Just because God uses different methods and techniques to reach his children does not mean that he is not in control.

Our leaders do and will make mistakes I am sure, since its in their nature, but it does not alleviate the need to seek after the truth that God has specifically shown them because of their God given position.

Using earthly example. The parental role is one in which children should be able to turn to. But even parents have certain constraints or guidelines that they must follow. Such it is with God with whom the system has been established already. Parents utilize a variety of methods of teaching their children. Each set of circumstances can be completely different and is affected to some degree by the environment at the time. Looking at some of the things that have happened that appeared contradictory at the time, it can actually be seen as appropriate handling of the situation. It can actually show loving power and direction. Thus it is with God and leaders he has chosen. When people are engrossed in sin things never look very good. The consequences are awful and should be. Unfortunately the good can take a beating and sin can appear to prevail in the shortterm. As far as polygamy it could be seen as serving a useful purpose at the time. The blacks not having the priesthood could also be a reflection on society too and protective of the new church. Things did get set up for the priesthood to be given quite quickly after the start of the church-the civil war, the civil rights movement..... Sometimes certain things need to come about before we are able to truly see and appreciate what is going on.

I can't help but think life is one big paradox or gestalt. Our time and place affects where we appear in it and how we view what God is doing.

Regardless , everything going on helps us greater appreciate continued personal revelation and direct communication with God.


We all start out with milk before the meat and sometimes we are given milk when we cannot have meat.
That does not mean there is no meat.

Sometimes we can have too much meat and not enough of the basics

1st corinthians 13:11
http://www.lds.org/conference/talk/display...1-602-4,00.html

Okay I am really struggling to have faith here. I guess you could say that I used to have the faith of a child....all believing, all knowing, all trusting. Now I feel that faith been shaken as I realize that our leaders do make mistakes, are not perfect, give bad advise, etc.

I have also been pondering the mysteries of the Lord and why he would allow pologamy, not give blacks the priesthood, etc and if all this "revelation" was just shortcomings on man's part. But at the same time it is said that the Lord will not allow the church to be led astray. So I don't know.

Anyway, I cam across this yesterday (yes, I'm behind!) and it just jumped out at me....It's Mormon Chapter 9 verse 9 and 10 in paticualar but the whole cahpter really.

To save time I won't type it all here, but what do you all think of thi sin relation to what I said above?
[/b]

I want to only address your phrase, "the Lord will not allow the church to be led astray." Could you give me the direct quote to this? I have only heard that the Lord will not allow the leaders to lead the members astray if they are doing their duty. You see every promised blessing is predicated upon the obedience to the law upon which it is predicated. Doing our duty is obeying the commandments, loving one another, serving one another, teaching one another the principles of the gospel, growing from grace to grace in our daily walk with the Lord. If you are doing all of these, you will not be lead astray, no matter what the leaders do in their weaknesses as men.

An example of this is Abinadi. Read his story. All the people had been led astray by wicked king Noah. But not Abinadi. What did he do differently to stay on the righteous path? His duty! He listen to the Spirit. He lived righteously and did all he was commanded to do.

You must do the same. The one thing that is really great about the Lord is that He will use even our weakness and the weakness of others to our benefit. All things work for our good if we love the Lord. This is doctrine. A sincere faith and trust in God, God will over rule all to bless us.

The story of Ruth demonstrates the forward obedience that brings blessings even when things don't look easy or practical. She did everything her mother-in-law told her. She didn't know what to expect, but she trusted in the providence of God.

You need to go out on a limb and have faith in the leaders and church under God's rule. Don't live by fear.

The fact that God over rules even wrong mistakes of the leaders is a tribute to His glory, it is not a loop hole for our rebellion.

God has prospered His church despite the errors or weaknesses of men in leadership positions. He will do the same for you and your mistakes or seeming weaknesses.

[TBWilson]

<div class='quotemain'>
Okay I am really struggling to have faith here. I guess you could say that I used to have the faith of a child....all believing, all knowing, all trusting. Now I feel that faith been shaken as I realize that our leaders do make mistakes, are not perfect, give bad advise, etc.

I have also been pondering the mysteries of the Lord and why he would allow pologamy, not give blacks the priesthood, etc and if all this "revelation" was just shortcomings on man's part. But at the same time it is said that the Lord will not allow the church to be led astray. So I don't know.

Anyway, I cam across this yesterday (yes, I'm behind!) and it just jumped out at me....It's Mormon Chapter 9 verse 9 and 10 in paticualar but the whole cahpter really.

To save time I won't type it all here, but what do you all think of thi sin relation to what I said above?
[/b]

I want to only address your phrase, "the Lord will not allow the church to be led astray." Could you give me the direct quote to this? I have only heard that the Lord will not allow the leaders to lead the members astray if they are doing their duty. You see every promised blessing is predicated upon the obedience to the law upon which it is predicated. Doing our duty is obeying the commandments, loving one another, serving one another, teaching one another the principles of the gospel, growing from grace to grace in our daily walk with the Lord. If you are doing all of these, you will not be lead astray, no matter what the leaders do in their weaknesses as men.

An example of this is Abinadi. Read his story. All the people had been led astray by wicked king Noah. But not Abinadi. What did he do differently to stay on the righteous path? His duty! He listen to the Spirit. He lived righteously and did all he was commanded to do.

You must do the same. The one thing that is really great about the Lord is that He will use even our weakness and the weakness of others to our benefit. All things work for our good if we love the Lord. This is doctrine. A sincere faith and trust in God, God will over rule all to bless us.

The story of Ruth demonstrates the forward obedience that brings blessings even when things don't look easy or practical. She did everything her mother-in-law told her. She didn't know what to expect, but she trusted in the providence of God.

You need to go out on a limb and have faith in the leaders and church under God's rule. Don't live by fear.

The fact that God over rules even wrong mistakes of the leaders is a tribute to His glory, it is not a loop hole for our rebellion.

God has prospered His church despite the errors or weaknesses of men in leadership positions. He will do the same for you and your mistakes or seeming weaknesses.
[/b][/quote]


Hey, Ajax, give me a call (801) 860-0199. Tell me more about me stealing a book my ex-wife wrote. About me not being honest and abadoning my children. Identify yourself if you are too afraid to do so.

<div class='quotemain'>
Okay I am really struggling to have faith here. I guess you could say that I used to have the faith of a child....all believing, all knowing, all trusting. Now I feel that faith been shaken as I realize that our leaders do make mistakes, are not perfect, give bad advise, etc.

I have also been pondering the mysteries of the Lord and why he would allow pologamy, not give blacks the priesthood, etc and if all this "revelation" was just shortcomings on man's part. But at the same time it is said that the Lord will not allow the church to be led astray. So I don't know.

Anyway, I cam across this yesterday (yes, I'm behind!) and it just jumped out at me....It's Mormon Chapter 9 verse 9 and 10 in paticualar but the whole cahpter really.

To save time I won't type it all here, but what do you all think of thi sin relation to what I said above?
[/b]

I want to only address your phrase, "the Lord will not allow the church to be led astray." Could you give me the direct quote to this? I have only heard that the Lord will not allow the leaders to lead the members astray if they are doing their duty. You see every promised blessing is predicated upon the obedience to the law upon which it is predicated. Doing our duty is obeying the commandments, loving one another, serving one another, teaching one another the principles of the gospel, growing from grace to grace in our daily walk with the Lord. If you are doing all of these, you will not be lead astray, no matter what the leaders do in their weaknesses as men.

An example of this is Abinadi. Read his story. All the people had been led astray by wicked king Noah. But not Abinadi. What did he do differently to stay on the righteous path? His duty! He listen to the Spirit. He lived righteously and did all he was commanded to do.

You must do the same. The one thing that is really great about the Lord is that He will use even our weakness and the weakness of others to our benefit. All things work for our good if we love the Lord. This is doctrine. A sincere faith and trust in God, God will over rule all to bless us.

The story of Ruth demonstrates the forward obedience that brings blessings even when things don't look easy or practical. She did everything her mother-in-law told her. She didn't know what to expect, but she trusted in the providence of God.

You need to go out on a limb and have faith in the leaders and church under God's rule. Don't live by fear.

The fact that God over rules even wrong mistakes of the leaders is a tribute to His glory, it is not a loop hole for our rebellion.

God has prospered His church despite the errors or weaknesses of men in leadership positions. He will do the same for you and your mistakes or seeming weaknesses.
[/b][/quote]


Ajax, this is Tim, the man you know so much about. Call me and identify yourself if you value truth at all.
(801) 860-0199.