1st Nephi Chapter 14:10 Church of the devil

[MorningStar]

I think it comes down to the parable of the sheep and goats. Those who serve God are sheep and those who don't are goats. Church of the Lamb = sheep, Church of the devil = goats.

Matthew 25

And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.


34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by skalenfehl

Bruce R. McConkie was not evil, did not commit some awful sin or was a horrible man. He was a very humble person, loving father and husband, devout member of the church and devoted member of the Quorum of the Twelve and bore his testimony plainly.

His last talk.

I saw/heard his last talk and it impressed me so much I don't think I'll ever forget it. This is why it shocked me so much when I first read people speaking out against him on here and not accepting a quotation from him as being valid.

[WillowTheWhisp]

Originally Posted by Flyonthewall

Unfortunately, because of BRM's claim in Mormon Doctrine, there were a lot of members that took it that way, and may not have heard or heard about his retraction. So there still may be a few older members who still have this outlook, but the official stance of the church repudiates that outlook.

I have read books by Protestant writers who also claim that the Catholic church is the whore of Babylon. In fact it was taught in a Baptist church here in the town where I live and they referred to the costly apparel and the gold threaded robes etc as being things condemned in the Bible.

[MaidservantX]

The Church of the Lamb is created by covenant and brings us to Christ (among other things, but let me state it simply that way). The only organization that is authorized by God to administer covenants is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

In that sense any other system of any sort cannot be (a part of) the Church of the Lamb.

Once you have covenants, you must keep them, of course. Just being baptized, but you violate the covenants, does not make one part of the Church of the Lamb. We all sin, of course, and we all need repentance, and we all have the opportunity to repent. But having the covenant, and then keeping it are both necessary.

The perception problem that we may have is that I think this scripture is talking about systems. We know very well that very good people (and we are all children of God!) are currently subject to systems that the Adversary and that men have set up (whether they are religious, political, etc). So the systems that are not the strait and narrow, ONE way, are the church of the Devil, I would say. But the PEOPLE in them aren't going to hell, and they aren't devils, and etc. The point of the scripture is to uncover those systems and to warn us, so that as CHILDREN OF GOD OF GREAT WORTH, we can see clearly the incorrect systems we may be a part of and currently be subject to, so that we can make our way to the Church of the Lamb.

To state it another way, the perception difficulty -- the work isn't done. For example, I believe that many churches, many preachers of churches (and etc etc etc), also things such as Alcoholics Anonymous -- these are all very, very good things, and I believe that Heavenly Father uses many good organizations and people, and inspires them, that are outside of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. God is leading his children to him in the way that they can best receive it. So in this sense, there could be many good things and systems happening in the world that can be considered the Church of the Lamb -- because the harvest isn't here yet on the whole! But eventually the Father's guidance for each individual will lead them to the covenants that we must make in order to return to him.

When the Savior returns for the Second Coming all of the world's systems will pass away and the only system left will be the Church of the Lamb -- but as we know, individuals will still be living who may and may not be baptized members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So again -- the work isn't done. The Church of the Lamb now? The Church of the Lamb at the Millenium? The Church of the Lamb in its exalted state after mortality is finished?

To state that the Babylon of the world is the "church of the Devil" is NOT a statement of an individual's worth. It is a statement of the conditions of oppression and other evils the world as a whole is presently in. The Father loves all of his children and will not LEAVE them in the church of the devil unless they really want to be there. He and His Son are in the process of redeeming us individually, and in the process of redeeming the world collectively.

That is how I understand it. I'm not sure I made sense here, sorry .

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

Could somebody please explain to me why there is this attitude towards Bruce R. McConkie? Did he commit some awful sin of which I am unaware? All I can recall of him is of a deeply spiritual man who knew his Saviour and was not afraid to look forward to meeting him face to face.

He knew the Savior personally.

[WillowTheWhisp]

So why are some people on here so quick to dismiss anything he said or wrote?

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by Flyonthewall

Unfortunately, because of BRM's claim in Mormon Doctrine, there were a lot of members that took it that way, and may not have heard or heard about his retraction. So there still may be a few older members who still have this outlook, but the official stance of the church repudiates that outlook.

This answer comes by personal prayer. For me, he partially answered the scripture in pointing out one of many dogmas eventually come under one rule. Whether it is worldly science or gospel according to man, one will stand at its head.

Nephi talks of many churches prior to this scripture quoted. Then later, talks of one as if it was a 'collective'.

[Hemidakota]

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

So why are some people on here so quick to dismiss anything he said or wrote?

As it is with other great work.

I would love for those individual to stand up now and say, 'MY ELECTION IS CALLED FOR SURE.'

[WillowTheWhisp]

Did he actually 'retract' or 'elaborate on and add to'? It seems more like the latter to me. The thing is if something is wrong it doesn't stop being wrong just because we don't say anything about it. That doesn't mean that the people themselves are of rhe devil, just that their leaders can have been misled by the devil - just as I'm sure a lot of them think that we are.

[Hemidakota]

I don't know if we have a Roman Catholic member in this forum, they will tell of one last Pope by name, which will eventually fall.

I don't recall if Bruce [being personal here] did a public retraction with his MDB statement. The only problem I do see, it was not clear enough on how the Catholic Church will eventually succumb to the one and be used for his own gain.

We have a bigger problem within for our own 'wolfs' in sheep clothing. This was a major problem to those in the BOM.