The Best Thing You Can Do To Help Mormons on YouTube.com

[Hemidakota]

Hmm...have to look myself on the news site and found that after a couple of contacts, the church does not provide any stats regarding attendance for public usage and financial expenditure.

Let me check if there is a way to release info without bringing 'chaos' to Heather.

Before I leave though, the worst area for attendance is Europe and Africa. The best areas are Latino countries and Asia. The number given previously, is seen in first mentioned area but not overall church attendance. Like I said, I am very curious on where he claimed those numbers.

[Truegrits]

Alexander:

So one might logically ask, if the Church is really the greatest thing in the world, then why do most people in it, leave it?

I am not clear on your impetus in proving this, nor do I care about any of your data/statistics. You seem quite adamant on proving your claims. I wonder why you are trying so hard? I have absolutely no desire to even try to prove anything to you, nor to change your mind about anything you believe. Because I very simply do not care what you think or what you can prove. I do not care if I am the last Mormon standing.
I do not need numbers/data/statistics.
I know what I believe; I know what MY truth is. I am happy with that.

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by AlexanderX

What an outrageous charge.

That's odd, coming from you.

It's funny, you keep touting supposed facts and figures, and never produce them. In fact, when I call you on your "more ex-mormons than mormons" claim, it turns out to be a fraud. One you STILL persist in, I might add. And guess what? Yes, I have also been a Ward Clerk. Imagine that.

I will grant you that Stewart's website is a good one, one I have visited over the years and I like what is happening there, truly.

In reviewing your last response to me, I can see that it has gone to "Is so!!" "Is not!!" dialogue.

Good luck, AlexanderX, and I'm done.

HiJolly

[GoodK]

Originally Posted by Truegrits

Alexander:
I do not need numbers/data/statistics.
I know what I believe; I know what MY truth is. I am happy with that.

This is some candid honesty I can appreciate.

Cheers!

[GoodK]

Originally Posted by HiJolly

That's odd, coming from you.

It's funny, you keep touting supposed facts and figures, and never produce them. In fact, when I call you on your "more ex-mormons than mormons" claim, it turns out to be a fraud. One you STILL persist in, I might add. And guess what? Yes, I have also been a Ward Clerk. Imagine that.

I will grant you that Stewart's website is a good one, one I have visited over the years and I like what is happening there, truly.

In reviewing your last response to me, I can see that it has gone to "Is so!!" "Is not!!" dialogue.

Good luck, AlexanderX, and I'm done.

HiJolly

I thought AlexanderX did provide statistics, facts, and figures. Here is one example:

Originally Posted by AlexanderX

Well, the first was not to be taken literally (I have a penchant for hyperbole) but it can hardly be ignored that baptisms per missionary has dropped dramatically since the internet. Just a basic fact check in the Church Almanacs should prove this point. I thought it was common knowledge. The Mormon process conversion requires a missionary to control the enivironment so that no negative information can be known to the "investigator." That is impossible on the internet. The best we can do is create message forums - set the rules so strict that disallows any information that would dissuade an investigator from baptism - and hope anyone interested in Mormonism will go there instead of Google. But not only do most people not come to these forums, many LDS go to google and find out things that they would have otherwise never known from missionaries.

I already mentioned the most exhaustive study avbailable by Davie Stewart at Cumorah Project LDS Mission Resources. Even in the United states activity rates around around 40%. And that's is responsible for almost half of the claimed membership in the global Church. Activity rates are generally worse outside the USA, with some exceptions in smaller populations.

I guess it would seem that way if you've already been believing something entirely different. But the facts speak for themselves. ANd yes, there have been hard surveys taken in some cases, such as Mexico and Chile. For example in 2001 the Church claimed there were more than a half million baptized members. Yet in 2002 the government took a survey that revealed only 100,000 Chileans identified themselves as LDS. That means the ex-Mormons outnumbered the Mormons by a ration of 4 to 1.

Similarly, in 1999 the Church claimed about 850,000 members inMexico. Yet, in a 2000 government census, only 200,000 citizens identified themselves as LDS. All of this can be read about in the summer 2005 issue of Dialogue, in an article written by LDS researcher, David Clark Knowlton.

The same holds true in every country where activity is below 50%, and this includes the United States as well:

Cumorah Project International LDS Database

Well, there's your hard facts.

But I don't see why it matters if there are "more ex-mormons" than there are Mormons. Does this (if it is true, and it certainly appears to be) imply something about the church?

[AlexanderX]

While the Church wisely conceals its horrible activity figures, it does provide us with some interesting figures regarding the construction of wards and new stakes. Here the number of stakes for the past 13 years.

1994 - 2,008
1995 - 2,150 - 7% increase
1996 - 2,296 - 7% increase
1997 - 2,424 - 6% increase
1998 - 2,505 - 4% increase
1999 - 2,542 - 1.5% increase
2000 - 2,581 - 1.5% increase
2001 - 2,601 - 0.7% increase
2002 - 2,602 - .00001% increase
2003 - 2,624 - 0.8% increase
2004 - 2,664 - 1.5% increase
2005 - 2,701 - 1.3% increase
2006 - 2,745 - 1.6% increase
2007 - 2,790 - 1.6% increase

Notice the dramatic dip in production since the advent of the internet. While the Church creates more stakes in new areas it is exploring for missionary efforts, it is compelling to shut down previously created stakes due to inactivity. Just look at the year 2002, when the Church increased with only ONE stake.

This information can be obtained by scanning the annual statistical reports provided at The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

[AlexanderX]

I am not clear on your impetus in proving this, nor do I care about any of your data/statistics. You seem quite adamant on proving your claims. I wonder why you are trying so hard?

I was asked to produce, so I have. I was accused of providing false information, so I am merely defending myself.

I have absolutely no desire to even try to prove anything to you, nor to change your mind about anything you believe. Because I very simply do not care what you think or what you can prove. I do not care if I am the last Mormon standing.
I do not need numbers/data/statistics.

Yes, this has gradually become the apologetic theme song since the Church turned out to be anything but the "fastest growing religion."

I know what I believe; I know what MY truth is. I am happy with that.

Good for you. I'm happy for you.

It's funny, you keep touting supposed facts and figures, and never produce them. In fact, when I call you on your "more ex-mormons than mormons" claim, it turns out to be a fraud.

Why are you lying? You have not shown anything I have presented to be "fraud." I presented the only available census that could give us some kind of indicator about the Church's membership claims.

One you STILL persist in, I might add. And guess what? Yes, I have also been a Ward Clerk. Imagine that.

Then you know that what I say is true. You know that the membership list is generally four times longer than the list of people who actually have anything to do with the Church. If everyone on the membership rolls decided to become active overnight, the Church couldn't build enough Stake centers to accomodate them within a year.

In reviewing your last response to me, I can see that it has gone to "Is so!!" "Is not!!" dialogue.

Except I'm the only one providing hard dats. You're providing assertion.

[HiJolly]

Originally Posted by GoodK

I thought AlexanderX did provide statistics, facts, and figures.

Yes, he did. But after looking through bro. Stewart's site, I'm not finding a large number of the figures quoted by AX. I suspect they look more like what comes out of anti-mormon sites.

Originally Posted by GoodK

But I don't see why it matters if there are "more ex-mormons" than there are Mormons. Does this (if it is true, and it certainly appears to be) imply something about the church?

It is not true, and therefore I'm not sure it matters. What do you think?

HiJolly

[abqfriend]

Hi Heather and everyone,
This relates to your initial post on this thread.
Thank you for your post and site links. You questioned why few are viewing videos on the following site: Jesus Christ, The Son of God I tried to view the videos on this site-and my computer stalled-the videos would not play. I have high speed Internet.
The You Tube site loads and works well-and I can even view in high speed. So-I think it may be a site related problem with the LDS site-perhaps related to bandwidth.
I am not a member of the LDS-but I agree with you that some people will always try to distort the teachings or faith of others of another faith tradition. There will always be a small minority of people trying to tear down the teaching or faith tradition of another.
That is the same in my church tradition as your own.
The problem seems almost universal.
I think the LDS related YouTube sites are great.

-Carol

[AlexanderX]

http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/estatist..._Censo2000.pdf

That is a census for Brazil, where less than 200,000 identified themselves as LDS. Yet, the Church claims there are nearly a million!!

Again, this suggests that roughly 80% of those baptized no longer associate with the Church. Even worse, they no longer identify themselves as LDS. This means they are not potentially just inactive members who still "know the Church is true."