The Best Thing You Can Do To Help Mormons on YouTube.com

[GoodK]

Originally Posted by HiJolly

It is not true, and therefore I'm not sure it matters. What do you think?

HiJolly

Why do you say it is not true? Because the site "looks anti" or you haven't found the statistics AX is providing?

Like I said, I don't see why it matters. Perhaps AX is on to something when he says most people are baptized before they gain a full understanding of Mormon doctrine/history. I'm not sure. But I find it troubling that peope are so opposed to this assertion, in light of data provided.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Greetings, Kevin Graham, aka dartagnan, aka AlexanderX.

[skalenfehl]

Folks, this thread is about helping our faith, which is continually attacked on the outside. Let's not bring the opposition to this thread. Further off topic posts will cause this thread to be locked. Thank you.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Originally Posted by GoodK

Why do you say it is not true? Because the site "looks anti" or you haven't found the statistics AX is providing?

Like I said, I don't see why it matters. Perhaps AX is on to something when he says most people are baptized before they gain a full understanding of Mormon doctrine/history. I'm not sure. But I find it troubling that peope are so opposed to this assertion, in light of data provided.

Good K, old bean! How's about a nice roast beef sandwich?

I like the suggestions in the OP, and I would encourage people also to enter the discussion already going on at many of the great LDS blogs well-established in the Bloggernacle, such as Times & Seasons and By Common Consent. Juvenile Instructor is an up-and-comer as well.

[GoodK]

Originally Posted by LifeOnaPlate

Good K, old bean! How's about a nice roast beef sandwich?

I like the suggestions in the OP, and I would encourage people also to enter the discussion already going on at many of the great LDS blogs well-established in the Bloggernacle, such as Times & Seasons and By Common Consent. Juvenile Instructor is an up-and-comer as well.

As long as it's a beef n cheddar

[KosherXMorg]

Originally Posted by AlexanderX

http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/estatist..._Censo2000.pdf

That is a census for Brazil, where less than 200,000 identified themselves as LDS. Yet, the Church claims there are nearly a million!!

Again, this suggests that roughly 80% of those baptized no longer associate with the Church. Even worse, they no longer identify themselves as LDS. This means they are not potentially just inactive members who still "know the Church is true."

I think MANY in South America, especially poor regions get baptized in such a whirlwind, they don't stay active because they honestly don't even realize they are now "Mormon" and still think of themselves as Catholic.
I'd be interested in knowing how many of these Brazilian converts are teenage or young adult girls being baptized by white American missionaries.

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by AlexanderX

And yes, investigators are rushed through the process.

Even though there are six discussions, missionaries are instructed to get a baptismal "commitment" after the second discussion! This means that a person is pushed to commit long before they hear anything about the restoration, temple's, tithes, law of chastity, etc. And of course after they commit, it makes it difficult for them to back down if they learn something they don't like in the last four discussions. Why? Because the missionaries make them feel badly by saying, "But you said God already told you it was true... remember your feelings when we prayed together"? This is why missionaries are told to constantly ask them how they feel, usually after the missionary shares a tear-jerking story. Naturally the person says he feels "good." At that point the missionary breaks out Galatians 5:22 and uses that to argue God is using emotion in telling him the Church is true.

Apparently you are a fan of Dr. David Stewart. I have an email on file from him in which he says he's an active faithful member of the LDS Church, if I remember it correctly.

I do think that David is right about people who are rushed into baptism being excellent candidates for early inactivity. Some converts never learn even the basics of the Gospel beyond what the missionaries teach them. I personally read everything LDS I could get my hands on for years after my baptism. That was 40 years ago and I'm still learning. But I think what I did is rare.

Every mission president has their own style of leadership and I think many of them push for numbers of baptisms rather than quality of preinstruction. The missionaries then dump the brand new members on branches and wards thinking that it's the bishop or branch president's responsibility then, and I guess it is.

I served a senior foreign mission and was a little taken back when the branch president told me in response to my first announcement that there would be baptisms coming up the next week: "More hungry mouths to feed".

But after being there for a while I began to see things more his way as people were rushed into baptism by the missionaries who were pressured by their mission president. All too often those new members just as quickly dropped away leaving huge burdens of responsibility and often guilt upon the active members who felt it was their fault because they hadn't fellowshiped or home or visit taught well enough.

But I'm sure the Brethren are aware and doing everything they can to help new members and reactivate those who never really knew the Gospel. It's a sifting process, many are called but few are chosen.

Once while on my mission I was at a members home with quite a few other members. I asked them what their reaction was to the missionaries on the street. Every single one of them said they tried to hide when they saw the missionaries approaching! Each of them said they only joined the Church because another member had invited them to a Sunday meeting and while they were there the Spirit had moved upon them.

But of course the full-time missionaries are doing a wonderful job and enormous numbers of good people come into the Church each year because of their work and sacrifice.

I think the responsibility of the newly emerging "Cyber Missionaries" is to help move sincere truth seekers to the official websites, especially Mormon.org. When they get there away from the cybertumult the Spirit can reach and teach them in the same way those members told me happened for them in the real world.

It's a great time to be alive...

[AlexanderX]

Apparently you are a fan of Dr. David Stewart.

Not really. I just find his research useful here.

I have an email on file from him in which he says he's an active faithful member of the LDS Church, if I remember it correctly.

So what if he is or isn't? I dont get it. Were you hoping to find out he was not LDS? That way anything he said could be dismissed as "anti"?

Every mission president has their own style of leadership and I think many of them push for numbers of baptisms rather than quality of preinstruction. The missionaries then dump the brand new members on branches and wards thinking that it's the bishop or branch president's responsibility then, and I guess it is.

The Mission Presidents aren't going to be the fall guys here. You can't blame it on them. People leave the Church in droves because they felt misled.

But I'm sure the Brethren are aware and doing everything they can to help new members and reactivate those who never really knew the Gospel. It's a sifting process, many are called but few are chosen.

Whatever. There will always be some wild rationalization that excuses the LDS method. I'm not really concerned because I know the Church will never change its method, and it will eventually self destruct because of this stubborness.

Once while on my mission I was at a members home with quite a few other members. I asked them what their reaction was to the missionaries on the street. Every single one of them said they tried to hide when they saw the missionaries approaching! Each of them said they only joined the Church because another member had invited them to a Sunday meeting and while they were there the Spirit had moved upon them.

Yes, this is common knowledge. Member referrals are the number one way to get converts.

But of course the full-time missionaries are doing a wonderful job and enormous numbers of good people come into the Church each year because of their work and sacrifice.

Not according to the statistics. Most people who come in will be gone within a few years, with a bad taste of Mormonism being left in their mouths.

I think the responsibility of the newly emerging "Cyber Missionaries" is to help move sincere truth seekers to the official websites, especially Mormon.org.

But there is nothing there except teh same banal platitudes that refuses to address the controversial things that drive investigators today. In teh past missionaries were more successful the more ignorant the investigators were. Today more and more people are learning about polygamy, blacks in the priesthood, the evidences against LDS truth claims, etc. Sending them to mormon,.org isn't going to do anything for people like this. These kinds of websites will only help convert the ignorant people who have virtually no exposure to critical Mormon issues. I have been involved in online apologetics for more than ten years and I can only think of ONE person who could have been said to have converted because of her exposure to LDS apologetics. Yet, I know of a half dozen once-strong members who have left, myself included. In my apologetic efforts I exposed myself to things I never would have found out otherwise. That's the irony.

The point is the best way the Church can get people to stop being persuaded by heated internet debates, is to cut their hard lines. Encouraging them to go to the internet is counter-productive.

[justamere10]

Originally Posted by AlexanderX

But there is nothing there except teh same banal platitudes that refuses to address the controversial things that drive investigators today. In teh past missionaries were more successful the more ignorant the investigators were. Today more and more people are learning about polygamy, blacks in the priesthood, the evidences against LDS truth claims, etc. Sending them to mormon,.org isn't going to do anything for people like this. These kinds of websites will only help convert the ignorant people who have virtually no exposure to critical Mormon issues. I have been involved in online apologetics for more than ten years and I can only think of ONE person who could have been said to have converted because of her exposure to LDS apologetics. Yet, I know of a half dozen once-strong members who have left, myself included. In my apologetic efforts I exposed myself to things I never would have found out otherwise. That's the irony.

The point is the best way the Church can get people to stop being persuaded by heated internet debates, is to cut their hard lines. Encouraging them to go to the internet is counter-productive.

The Church may be encouraging people to go to the official LDS websites such as FamilySearch because it's such an efficient way to convey information.

But what non-members are often finding online about the LDS is stuff from the lucrative anti-Mormon publishing industry, and that is never favorable to the Church and its members.

So, recently there has been encouragement from at least one of the Senior Brethren for members to become involved in Internet religious discussions.

That's happening more and more and eventually the LDS side of the story will be found as easily as the misinformation.

I personally started an "Ask a Mormon" thread on the Hannity forum about six weeks ago. In that time it has attracted more than 3,000 posts and 37,000 views. That's a whole lot of interest (negative and positive) in the "Mormons". And as boards go, that's a whole lot of lurkers, some of whom may have gone to mormon.org. I had one non-member pm me saying "I'm in" and there may be others from that thread too. I've heard from a few other "Cyber Missionaries" that they know of people joining the Church because of their efforts. One international resident says at least one person a month joins the LDS Church because of what she is writing online.

I think if President McKay had been the Prophet today he might have written:

"Every member a CYBER missionary!"

It's so easy for LDS who spend a lot of time online socializing to take a tithe of it to do Cyber Missionary work. I think it's going to happen more and more as time rolls on and Elder Ballard's word gets out...

http://www.ldscybermissionaries.org


.

[skalenfehl]

Originally Posted by AlexanderX

But there is nothing there except teh same banal platitudes that refuses to address the controversial things that drive investigators today. In teh past missionaries were more successful the more ignorant the investigators were. Today more and more people are learning about polygamy, blacks in the priesthood, the evidences against LDS truth claims, etc. Sending them to mormon,.org isn't going to do anything for people like this. These kinds of websites will only help convert the ignorant people who have virtually no exposure to critical Mormon issues. I have been involved in online apologetics for more than ten years and I can only think of ONE person who could have been said to have converted because of her exposure to LDS apologetics. Yet, I know of a half dozen once-strong members who have left, myself included. In my apologetic efforts I exposed myself to things I never would have found out otherwise. That's the irony.

Please visit the moregood foundation's website and check out the mission of our website:

About the More Good Foundation :: More Good Foundation

This forum is a place for LDS members to let their light shine and for all Christians to come and express their beliefs and share their testimonies. This is not an apologetic site. We are here to strengthen each other as LDS members and also as Christians. Discussing concerns is one thing but your tone is unacceptable. Furthermore if you simply do a search in our forums you will find extensive discussions about the topics you seem so concerned about. Please be charitable in your posts from now on. This is the second time I have had to moderate this topic because of your negative posting. Please don't do it again.